Abortion

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Actually no bells i have placed it on BOTH heads, if protection isnt used BOTH are at fault.

I have also said that as the decision to abort or not is HER decision alone that means that if he wants the fetus to be aborted and is willing to pay half the cost or even ALL the cost then she can do what she will with the money, thats his responcability gone

Unless your sugesting that abortion should be only avialable for emergency and rape ect?

 

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The principle of the law is that you are not responcable for another persons choices. It sucks but thats the way it is. If you have a one night stand and fall pregnant and the man is willing to pay for an abortion, you dont want it thats YOUR choice not his. Exactly the same as if he DOESNT want you to have an abortion and you do. He has to accept that doesnt he?

If life was fair there would be a way for the man to have the child and let the woman walk away, it isnt. SO yes that is my opinion, personally i would like for abortions to have to be a joint choice but my opinion in that doesnt count. Its a womans body and so its her choice, by the same token its a mans wallet so its his choice.

Best advice, dont get involved it one night stands and stick to people who you trust

 

Here's a recent movie on the topic. It's called 4 Months, 3 Weeks and 2 Days. It's about a woman who has an unwanted pregnancy in a nation ruled by communist dictator Ceausescu. Apparently, it's not a romantic comedy like Knocked Up or Juno.
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1709046,00.html

 

IslamOnline.net

 

But it will NEVER be equal til teh man can get pregnant as well. When the guy gets pregnant he can have all teh say he wants in it.

 

as long as that cant happen you get all the responcability Orleander. Your choice your responcability. We abolished laws that said that the man was legally responcable for what his wife choses to do.

 

juno is not a romantic comedy

 

You don't get to feel cheated

I think you're extending the argument too far here. But we need to put your statement alongside another:

Look, abortion isn't for men. At least, not until we can get pregnant. You cannot disconnect the act of sexual intercourse from a pregnancy unless that pregnancy is deliberately conceived through artificial insemination. So, yes ... your choice, your responsibility. And that includes the choice to get on the woman and get your rocks off.

I suppose one way of looking at it would be to look at such a child as you decry and tell them, every day, "You should have been aborted. The fact that you exist is so unfair to me."

And I know that's harsh, but so is your position. If a woman doesn't want to do what a man wants her to do, that does not necessarily absolve him of the effects of his actions. My partner explained her decision to carry our daughter to term with fallacy. "I might not have another chance," she said. Which was crap. She was thirty. Yeah, I feel cheated. Not by the decision, but because she did everything she could to take away or diminish what should have been a series of "great moments" in any man's life. I mean, what am I supposed to say to that? What about being told I had a child on the way? I learned because a severely drunk woman thought she could hurt me with the knowledge that she was carrying my child. Not only was the embryo loaded at the moment, but it was being used as a weapon. But you know what? Absolutely none of that has anything to do with my daughter. There's a part of me that would have ached over an abortion. But that's just manly pride. I already know that my line should have stopped with me. That point is irrelevant now. Instead of moping over that fact, instead of calling my daughter a mistake, it seems to me I might as well make the best of an unexpected circumstance. It's fairly easy to do; I have a blood relative, which for me is a wholly unique experience. And life goes on. You're complaining about what is, at best, a one-in-four outcome:

From a man's perspective: Basic considerations

(1) Both parents want child: positive outcome.
(2) Father wants child, mother aborts: stings; man should consider whether he's invested in the right woman.
(3) Both parents want abortion: positive outcome.
(4) Father wants abortion, mother has child: well, that just rips it. There's no way a man should be obliged to deal with the effects of his choices.​

I'm glad you have faith in your girlfriend. But if you think for a moment that you can put that faith up against the power of biochemistry and self-governance, be neither surprised nor bitter if you lose. Because that contrast between what she says ("We'll decide as a couple") and the reality of how a pregnancy makes a woman feel is part of the gamble you take when you get on her in the first place.

Someday, someone reading this discussion might actually face a genuine consideration when their girlfriend, who always said they would decide as a couple, takes that decision into her own hands. That potential outcome is one we accept when we make the choice to fuck her in the first place.

We have no comparative equivalent for what a pregnancy means and does to a woman. If I say you're yammering out your ass on this one, it's because that's about all we men can do when it comes to pregnancy. Until either men can get pregnant and carry a child to term—

• Do you have the remotest clue what it feels like to get kicked in the bladder? From inside your body? Neither do I.

• Have you ever crossed the line and pressured, harassed, or coerced a woman into having sex with you? (Don't answer that, it's a rhetorical proposition.) The average man would have to multiply severely the power of his hormones in chasing tail before he could experience what the fact of pregnancy does to a woman. We might make jokes about what pregnancy does to women's behavior°, but most of that is just stereotype and we need to shut our mouths. However, the question at hand—whether or not a woman will grant you influence over her reproductive decisions—justly falls within this range°.

• Have you any chemical addictions°? Have you ever beaten one? The difference is orders of magnitude.​

—we really don't have any real clue what we're talking about. Even my outlook on the power of biochemistry is, to a degree, speculative. I can tell you what women tell me. I can compare states of mind° intellectually, but not directly.

But one thing I can tell you is that principle crumbles in the face of natural reality. Just like saying you shouldn't be banging the woman in the first place, only more so. Exponentially more so. And if in your life you face this particular outcome, no, you don't get to feel cheated.

Well, you can. But that wouldn't mean you were right.
____________________

Notes:

° jokes about what pregnancy does to women's behavior — And I've got a great one. So, if a harried man ever asks me how I put up with my partner when she was pregnant, I would shrug and say, "I didn't really notice the difference". Compared to the stereotype implied by the question, that's a huge indictment of my daughter's mother.

° justly falls within this range — Unfortunately, most of us only understand impulsion to this degree from a critical standpoint: addiction, psychosis, &c. Depression is about as mild an example as I can think of right now. There are days on which I simply will not be happy. It doesn't feel right. On those days, happiness feels so false that you might as well be insisting I sacrifice my intellect and take up religion. Any attempt to improve my mood would only offend me and increase my ire. And yet, for some reason, in those moments, it feels absolutely proper that I should feel that way. Comparatively, though, I know I've only experienced an infinitesimal fraction of nature's power.

° addictions — Having broken a growing cocaine habit and also quit smoking tobacco over the last eighteen months, I'm fairly confident of where I stand in relation to addiction. I also know, however, that not everyone is so fortunately-endowed. There are those who will be tortured every day of their lives without a cigarette or a line. There are those who simply can't stop drinking alcohol. My ability to quit cigarettes, or quash a cocaine habit before it exploded into full-blown addiction, has absolutely nothing of use to tell people so cursed by their demons. Comparatively, the power of life itself, unleashed on a woman's brain and body, will trump anything you might claim as your right in deciding whether to abort or carry to term. And if the woman in question is so affected by biochemistry, there is nothing

° states of mind — For instance, eating raw meat. We might nod and think it's understandable that, even though we're accustomed to thinking something is disgusting, we might do it anyway. But that's not quite the same thing. Can we imagine looking at raw ground beef and openly desiring to eat it? To demand to eat it? As is? Nothing disgusting about it? Without thinking about the significance of it being raw? As in, all of our conditioning about raw meat is absent? When I'm stoned, I can eat certain pepperoni pizzas or fettuccine alfredos without any coherent thoughts. Literally, I disappear into sensation until its over. There is something chemical taking place in my brain as this happens. That is as close as I can come to sympathizing with the eating of raw meat. I can't imagine raw hamburger doing the same to me. Then again, I'll never be pregnant.

 

God says in his last holy book about abortion.

"Kill not your children for fear of want: We shall provide sustenance for them as well as for you. Verily the killing of them is a great sin. (The Noble Quran, 17:31)"

"Say: "Come, I will rehearse what God hath (really) prohibited you from": Join not anything as equal with Him; be good to your parents; kill not your children on a plea of want;- We provide sustenance for you and for them;- come not nigh to shameful deeds. Whether open or secret; take not life, which God hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom. (The Noble Quran, 6:151)"

"O Prophet! When believing women come to thee to take the oath of fealty to thee, that they will not associate in worship any other thing whatever with God, that they will not steal, that they will not commit adultery (or fornication), that they will not kill their children, that they will not utter slander, intentionally forging falsehood, and that they will not disobey thee in any just matter,- then do thou receive their fealty, and pray to God for the forgiveness (of their sins): for God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (The Noble Quran, 60:12)"

"He created you (all) from a single person: then created, of like nature, his mate; and he sent down for you eight head of cattle in pairs: He makes you, in the wombs of your mothers, in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness. such is God, your Lord and Cherisher: to Him belongs (all) dominion. There is no god but He: then how are ye turned away (from your true Centre)? (The Noble Quran, 39:6)"

"Man We did create from a quintessence (of clay); (The Noble Quran, 23:12)"

"Then We placed him as (a drop of) sperm in a place of rest, firmly fixed; (The Noble Quran, 23:13)"

"Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be God, the best to create! (The Noble Quran, 23:14)"

"Was he not a drop of sperm emitted (in lowly form)? (The Noble Quran, 75:37)"

"Then did he become a leech-like clot; then did (God) make and fashion (him) in due proportion. (The Noble Quran, 75:38)"

"And of him He made two sexes, male and female. (The Noble Quran, 75:39)"

"Him Who created thee. Fashioned thee in due proportion, and gave thee a just bias; (The Noble Quran, 82:7)"

"In whatever Form He wills, does He put thee together. (The Noble Quran, 82:8)"

"O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs). (The Noble Quran, 22:5)"

"Verily We created Man from a drop of mingled sperm, in order to try him: So We gave him (the gifts), of Hearing and Sight. (The Noble Quran, 76:2


This is Islam, in all its mercy, humanity and firmness

 

Why does God abort babies? It's called a miscarriage.

 

yeah it also said be fruitful and multiply. So no more birth control I suppose?

 

SPIDERGOAT

If your respecatble mother aborted U would you have the chance to write now!
Who has protected you from any harm before or after u came to this world!

How do u define God

 

If I were aborted, I wouldn't be here to write this. If I didn't exist, I could not care if I were aborted or not. Person X was aborted and is not currently participating in this discussion. Does anyone miss him?

Before I came into this world, I didn't exist, so no one was needed for protection. After I leave this world, I will also not exist, and not need protection from anything.

I define God as a supernatural being who is infinite, omnipotent, omniscient, and is involved in the lives of humans. This is just a concept. There is no such thing.

 

As there is oppression,injustice ,deception,.Do you think that there will be no other court after u die.The baby whose mother deprives him or her from ,his right to live.Towhom will he complain.The people who were killed or are poor because their rights were stolen.Who will restore them their rights.Those who do righteousness.Who will reward them.

 

There is no absolute universal justice. Sorry about that.

Death is the end. There is nothing afterwards because your body is the experiencing structure. When that's gone, there is no experience. In fact, no one even experiences their own death, because unconsciousness comes first.

 

In short we can very clearly observe that everything in nature follows a carefully-crafted and delicately-balanced order. This naturally requires a well-coordinated plan behind it. As such, if there is a plan, mustn’t there be a planner? If we live in a world of cause and effect, there must be an original uncaused cause.

Our reason and our experience teach us that a plan can come only out of intelligence. When we look at the grand design and perfect balance of the universe, the unerring order and pattern in nature, how can we call this mere coincidence? In a world of random events, the sun could suddenly go out of its orbit and fly off at a tangent; the seas can become boiling acids, etc. There will be no law; no order.

But ours is a universe of order, it is a cosmos and not a chaos. There is a reliable order, or a predictability and stability (instead of randomness) of laws governing the workings of the universe. Hence, scientists are able to do experiments and discover what they call the laws of nature or the laws of science.

 

No, there mustn't.

 

There is no plan, but there are natural laws which science can discover. They are blind forces with no intelligence or personality. The discovery of evolution explains just about everything about the apparent order of living things. Evolution is only slightly more ordered than chaos, but this order is retained by the DNA code. Beneficial mutations, which are mistakes, accumulate if they assist the organism in reproducing itself.

If there is cause and effect, there can be no first cause, because- what caused that?

I would also like to say, I appreciate that you are speaking for yourself instead of quoting some holy book, thank you.