Abortion

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by JOEBIALEK, Jan 31, 2008.

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  1. JOEBIALEK

    JOEBIALEK Registered Member

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    On this 35th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision, I would like to share my views on the issue of abortion.

    Life begins at the point of conception. No one can deny that after a human being is conceived it will develop into the very same being as those debating this issue. What astounds me is that those who favor abortion went through an identical development stage as the being they are condemning to death. Would these very same people agree that a similiar choice should have been made about their own existence? Abortion today is used primarily as a birth control of convenience because people are too self-centered to take precautions. They prefer their own pleasurable self-indulgence over the care and sanctity of the life they created. What ever happened to taking responsibility for one's actions in this country? Is it too much to ask a woman who has conceived to place the child into adoption? Nine months of discomfort is nothing compared to life in prison for voluntary manslaughter! Does the father of the child have a say in this? And what about the constitution of the United States? Are not all people conceived in this country deserving of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? I believe abortion is a crime against humanity and should be outlawed. We need to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision and get back to cherishing life in this country. For a country that murders it's children cannot be far from self destruction.
     
    JOEBIALEK, Jan 31, 2008
    #1

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  3. Kadark

    Kadark Banned Banned

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    Wonderful post, Joe. I agree wholeheartedly.
     
    Kadark, Jan 31, 2008
    #2

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  5. sandy

    sandy Banned Banned

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    Amen and well-said! :bravo:
     
    sandy, Jan 31, 2008
    #3

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  7. Asguard

    Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    Well done to you, you picked all the right wing nuts in one thread

    Anyway this belongs in ethics not politics so i will move it
     
    Asguard, Jan 31, 2008
    #4
  8. Kadark

    Kadark Banned Banned

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    I'm not a "right-wing nut". Hell, I'm not even right-wing. Not everyone can be compartmentalized based off their view on one issue.
     
    Kadark, Jan 31, 2008
    #5
  9. pjdude1219

    pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    i would like to post my opionin in response i think aboration should be legal. it is wrong to force ones own beliefs on others. if you think abortion is wrong you don't have to get one. it is mainly used as a way when people are not ready to have a child and the female gets knocked up an abortion is gotten. i believe it is more ethical to have abortions than let these unwanted children be born or to expect people to almost completely suppress biological urges.
     
    pjdude1219, Jan 31, 2008
    #6
  10. madanthonywayne

    madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Not all of them, well, not till now.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    madanthonywayne, Jan 31, 2008
    #7
  11. pjdude1219

    pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    your right wing but i would hardly call you a nut you have shown the ability to think for yourself
     
    pjdude1219, Jan 31, 2008
    #8
  12. Asguard

    Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    i do have to agree with that mad. I would have left off the nut from a description of you.

    Only really aplies to people who refer to "liberal idiots"
     
    Asguard, Jan 31, 2008
    #9
  13. angrybellsprout

    angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    you are quite true, if you think rape is wrong you don't have to rape anyone...
     
    angrybellsprout, Jan 31, 2008
    #10
  14. angrybellsprout

    angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    I am a strong supporter of the concept of choice, and thus consider myself to be pro-choice.

    I support the choice to have sex. That sex is a concious act that individuals take part in, and in doing so make a voluntary choice to do so, with the exception of rape. I also have enough knowledge of science to understand that upon making the choice to have sex, that I am also making the choice to run the risk of having my sperm mix with a woman's eggs to produce a separate and unique individual. Rape is when your right to choice has been violated, thus any obligation to future consequence is null and void.

    I also support the choice to live or not. That if an individual wants to kill themselves for whatever reason, then they should be allowed to do as such. Thus if someone is so poor, or so unloved that their quality of life is to a point where their life is not worth living, then they should have the right to make the choice to continue living or not.

    In support of the choice to live or not also follows that other individuals should not be allowed to force either of those conditions upon another individual, unless said individual has done something to forefit their rights. That a person who has made grievous crimes has forefitted their right to make their own choice about life or death, thus the state is allowed to make the choice for them. That an individual who has attempted to attack another and as such is attempting to take away that person's right to choice is in effect forefitting their own right to choice and as such the person being attacked has every right to choose to kill the attacker or not in the defense of their own personal right to choose.

    When abortions take place there is no regard for choice, with exception to medical emergancies and sometimes rape. The child's right to decide if it lives or not is being violated, and the violators of said rights should be punished. Anyone who would do such a thing simply is proving that they oppose the very concept of choice, and are in effect anti-choice.
     
    angrybellsprout, Jan 31, 2008
    #11
  15. Killian_1_4

    Killian_1_4 Registered Senior Member

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    108
    "Life begins at conception."
    I do not think life

    EDIT: Wanted to "go advanced", clicked "post quick reply", am now "pissed off".
     
    Killian_1_4, Jan 31, 2008
    #12
  16. q0101

    q0101 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    388
    Every time I see a thread like this it makes me feel lucky to be a man. I will never have to experience the physical and emotional pain of being forced to give birth to an unwanted child. I don’t think that the U.S congress will ever pass a federal law making abortion illegal in all 50 states, but I could see it happing in some states. I think abortion should be legal (even late term abortions) because I don’t believe that an unborn child should have any rights. I believe that women should have the right to do what ever they want to do with their own bodies. A fetus is nothing more than internal organ / parasite that has the ability to continue living when it leaves a woman’s body. Also believe that it is unethical to give birth to an unwanted child, because the world is overpopulated with unwanted children that are being abused and neglected.

    George Carlin – Pro Life Is Anti-Woman
     
    q0101, Jan 31, 2008
    #13
  17. Killian_1_4

    Killian_1_4 Registered Senior Member

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    I read a study that said abortion rates are virtually identical worldwide, but where it is legal the survival rates for women are much higher.
     
    Killian_1_4, Jan 31, 2008
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  18. Challenger78

    Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

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    7,536
    "If you're pre born, You're fine, If you're pre school, you're fucked."

    It's true.
    Abortion is about choice. If we believe in freedom for all. women should be allowed to abort. It's there choice. and they will live with the consequences. Society will not stop at the loss of every baby.
     
    Challenger78, Jan 31, 2008
    #15
  19. angrybellsprout

    angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    angrybellsprout, Jan 31, 2008
    #16
  20. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    I have never understood how some people can be fence sitters on this issue. You are either pro-choice or not. If you think that life does begin at conception and that abortion is wrong, you cannot then attempt to say that it is acceptable in medical emergencies and in instances of rape. There is no in-between on this issue. You are either pro-choice or anti-choice.

    It is also surprising how so many people who are against governmental interference in people's lives, believing the State should not be have so much power, can be supportive of any law that grants the State power over a person's womb.

    I am pro-choice. If a woman decides to have an abortion, it is not for me or the State to demand she go through an unwanted pregnancy and then give birth to an unwanted child, to then abandon it to a failing welfare system where the child will spend its young life in a home, waiting to be adopted or fostered to many homes, facing possible abuse. I personally feel the State should have no say as to what I decide to do with my uterus or anything that happens to be growing inside said uterus. If you are pro-choice and believe that life begins at conception and find the thought of an abortion to be terrible, the solution is simple. Never have one. Pro-choice people do not demand others have abortions or to carry a child to term. Pro-choice is about allowing women and couples the right to choose. It is not my place to demand anyone have a child, nor should it be the State's place to do so. That is giving the State too much power. I find it inconceivable how some would argue that socialised medicine gives the State too much power (as one example), but in the next breath will say that the State should legislate over what a woman does with her womb.

    Having had two children, in circumstances that were detrimental to my health and wellbeing, I can assure you, I made the choice to try to get both pregnancies to term. I was never under pressure either way. The choice was always mine. To take such a choice away from other women is obscene in my opinion. There are no valid reasons why any woman should be forced to undergo a pregnancy that is either a danger to her person, both physically or mentally, or because she does not want a child. Do I think each of my children's life began when my husband's sperm came into contact with my egg? No.

    As a pro-choice woman, I do not force my beliefs upon anyone else. I also do not appreciate or expect others, especially the State, to force it's beliefs on me and my womb. I have known women who have been abused and harassed when visiting family planning centers, one woman had the unenviable choice of either aborting her dying foetus at midterm or carrying on with the pregnancy to give birth to a dead foetus towards the end of her term. It would have been downright cruel and inhumane to force this woman to carry the foetus to the end of the term and then force her to give birth to a dead child. She chose to have an abortion when every test confirmed the child would never make it to term and would die in utero. This poor woman was spat on and abused when visiting a family planning center to have her abortion. She was called a murderer, a bitch and a plethora of other names. Not only was she grieving for the loss of a much wanted child, she was also having to cope with pro-life protesters who viewed her as a murderer, without ever once asking her, without even knowing what her situation was.

    Pro-choice is just that. Choice. Had the laws been different, she would have been forced to carry on with the pregnancy, feel the child grow and move inside her and then have to wait until those movement's stopped altogether and know her child had died, then be induced to give birth to a dead child. That is what many in the pro-life group desire. The refusal of choice to such women who do at times have to face such harrowing decisions.
     
    Bells, Jan 31, 2008
    #17
  21. Asguard

    Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    bell where are you?

    I have never herd of that happerning in Australia, If it did thats just descraceful. I hope the person was charged with assult and put away for a LONG time. Although with Tony Abott as health minster it wouldnt really surprise me. I couldnt belive he was stupid enough to try and make the morning after pill perscription only. What a bloody descrace
     
    Asguard, Jan 31, 2008
    #18
  22. madanthonywayne

    madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    You don't see the contradiction in those two statements? If you believe abortion to be murder, it's not unreasonable government interference to protect innocent lives. It's only unreasonable if you don't believe it's a baby.

    I might also add that it's perfectly logical to be against abortion except when the mother's life is in danger. That's self defense.
     
    madanthonywayne, Jan 31, 2008
    #19
  23. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    It was in Victoria at the time. Quite a few years ago now. There are still some people who protest outside of some clinics that do perform abortions...

    I don't believe that life begins at conception. Abortion is a personal issue and not one that any Government should legislate to ban based on personal beliefs. I'll give you an example. The Catholic Church is against the use of contraception. Do you think a Catholic President should have a right to stack the Supreme Court with Catholic Judges and then attempts to ban the sales of condoms and all other forms of contraception? The answer to that would be no (at least I would hope it would be no). You would not appreciate the State attempting to legislate your choice of reproduction and nor would I.

    The example is extreme, but at its root, the similarities are striking. Making abortions illegal, the State is thus interfering with women's reproduction and dictating the use of her uterus.
     
    Bells, Jan 31, 2008
    #20
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