My apologies i got the wrong impression from your post of what you meant, and your correct it is unfair to fathers purely because its the womans body. And what of those who had protected sex but something went wrong?(nothing is 100% effective) They get stuck with a kid by your view darktrooper, also thats a lot of money for each time, if the person wants another after the 1st one and hasnt learnt their lesson, it can turn into an expensive habbit. You have a warped view of sex, it isnt a risk to peoples lives and certainly not happiness(unless your a slut and sleep with everyone, then you may catch a disease), sex is a loving expression, if unprotected it should only be for creating life, if people then dont want that child i agree with your view. Many people are wrongly informed, most people do not have abortions as a form of contraception, it simply isnt logical if you take into account its price compared with other forms and the fact it may leave you riddled with guilt, most people that have abortions are rape victims, uneducated about the subject of sex and protection, or simply had an accident, and theres also the group that do it because its what their parents/loved ones think best.
Abortion=WRONG. This topic has been beaten to death in these forums, fact is abortion has been around a lot longer than Roe vs Wade here in the US, and a lot longer than most of us are aware off. http://www.hopeclinic.com/history.htm Abortion is not wrong, it's a moral right, that is the sole discretion of the woman involved, not man's opinions, governements, or churches. A fetus does not have rights, it's silly to argue that a potential has rights above the living. Godless.
When shes the only one that has to live with the consequences then fair enough, if her decision affects someone else then it isnt just up to her.
Antifreeze writes: "i would rather be dead than live miserably." I have good news for you. Poor folks are not necessarily miserable, nor do I find they are any more miserable than you, (assuming that you are not poor) and maybe not as miserable. When I came into this world, I was born in a plank house, propped up at one corner with rocks and, ironically, the bed was also short a leg and was therefore propped at once corner. I was born on that bed, on a stormy Oklahoma night in January. My mother was eighteen, and a year earlier had an illness that had left her paralyzed on her left side. My father was 21 and worked on farms for other people. It was doubtful whether either my mother or I could be saved, but the doc thought he might could save one of us. Well, we both lived. Was I ever miserable? Yes, I was at times, but all in all I have had a marvelous life, with many (poor) loved ones. Most of us moved to California when I was two. Boy, we thought a glass of sweetened iced tea after a hot day in the fields, under the shade of one of those big California trees, was the epitomy of good fortune. All the hell I went through during much of my first seven years became a rock on which I stand. The good to which I was exposed, lives forever in my heart. I think part of the good was that we had humor, we knew songs, we were hardworking, and always proud of a job well done. When the work was done, we talked, we read, we kept up with current events; we looked out for each other and for our neighbors. We worried over a cow, or a baby chick. We were taught to nurture and to protect. My mother has been gone for some years now. She did the best she could, and I know she could have never done as well as she did with an abortion on her conscience. Some can, and I do not judge them, but saying that you would rather be dead than miserable leaves a lot of questions. pmt
"most people that have abortions are rape victims, uneducated about the subject of sex and protection, or simply had an accident, and theres also the group that do it because its what their parents/loved ones think best." WHERE ON EARTH DID YOU GET THAT? People do not intend to use abortion for birth control. But, it happens, apparently far more than you think. And sex is a risk. No one has more regard for a relationship than I do, but I would say it is most especially a longterm risk for men, because they have no say for the outcome. Most things in life are risky, but there is responsibility according to ability, and we have many options before considering abortion.
Godless, you behave yourself, Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! and do not sell us short. Of course, there were abortions before Roe vs. Wade, but they were not legal. I heard horror stories all my life about such things, and guess what? There are still horror stories. Some girls are forever tormented by the fact that they killed a life that could have grown up as did they. You are obviously not a woman, Fella, and whereas it is really big of you to be so generous, I have seen the sorrow on a man's face when he found out his wife wanted an abortion, because she had "changed her mind." Come on! Aside from all that, Howdy!
If your correct then the world has far more stupid and illogical people in it than i thought, its simply easier to stop things before getting to the abortion stage, if they are using it as birth control its rather expensive isnt it? I'd consider it uneducated to take that route instead of the sensible one. That depends if they use protection and if the man would stand by the women if they had an accident and she didnt wish to abort it, though i dont see sex as a risk, its something for me and someone i love to enjoy and express, maybe its just because everything is a risk that i dont notice it, like crossing a road or flying.
Lemming3K; You are one of my favorite contributors. Thank you so much for your good words. You never know, someone may see a different way to look at things. Chow.
There are several people who would be smelling flowers from the dirt side if I was not afraid of what the law would do to me. I feel that their removal from this world would make it a safer and nicer place. The state has an interest in preventing the vendettas from occurring because they would spiral out of control and in the end innocent people would be hurt. How would these murders differ from abortion? These people have committed actions which merit a shorter life. They are not innocent. I believe that it is sad that not everyone has a wonderful life. We all have to face the fact that sometimes our best laid plans fail. It is not society’s job to coddle everyone some people will always dream of being a writer and will never be published in a perfect world is it fair to deny them their dreams because they are not lucky enough to have the ability to craft entertaining novels? Why should they be punished for their lack of an ability to plan out a plot? What about people who invest their life savings into a business that goes broke shouldn’t the government reimburse them from their loss if it was just bad luck? If you are having sex then you should have the capacity to realize that one of the unpleasant consequences of having sex is that you or your partner might become pregnant. If this happens then it is no longer your body you have just committed to a nine- month lease. The inconvenience of the mother for nine months does not override the very real fact that it is a human child being carried. I agree that society needs to make it easier for adoption to replace unwanted terminations. I do not believe that anyone has the right to kill someone whose only crime is living.
Yes, well not everybody thinks that abortion is murder. Lucky us. Meanwhile, others believe that ejaculation is murder. Unlucky you.
You must be fully certain, knowing truly it is not murder, to condone it. No one has said ejaculation is murder on this thread. The potential to exist and potential to become whole are two very different things. We cannot label something, and say that something has the potential to exist. On the other hand, we can most certaintly say the fetus has the potential to become a full human being. Denying this potential is denying the full human being's life.
I have never said that ejaculation is murder if you inferred that from my post I apologize. I have tried to make it very clear that I consider human life to begin when an egg and a sperm unite to complete one set of genes. Abortion rights advocates constantly deny that at that point it is a member of the human species and should be treated like one.
And we have tried to make clear that human life starts WAy after that. Unless you can give us a reason a fertilized egg is human, but a few other cells are not... then you have no basis for your opinion. Exactly. A fetus is not yet whole. Neither is a sperm. If you disagree, explain why you consider one whole, but not the other.
This is true but neither are many adults. My use of whole should only suggest that the fetus is growing and learning towards maturity. A sperm is not a separate human being but just a cell. A sperm in no sense of the word grows into a human being. Though it may contribute its genetic code to form a human being, it is neither a human being nor can be. A fetus, however, is growing towards becoming a full human being. Thus, while we can say that the fetus has the potential to be a human being, before conception the fetus did not exist in any form. Before conception there is no single entity that we can say has the potential of being a human being but only the sperm and egg of which we can loosely say share the potential to become a human being. But since the human being does not currently exist, the potential is not applicable. For murder to occur there must be a human being, and there is no human being here. As an example of potential, say I was to tell you that you were to discover a new, important, theory a week from now if your office is not broken into. This was told to me by an unknown source but you do not know. Now say I break into your office, steal your papers, and then derive the same theory from it, calling it all my own. True, this is hypothetical, but am I not responsible for stealing the theory from you? If you did not exist, then you would be nothing to steal from. But since you do exist, I have stolen from a human being. Although potential is important, one of the most important things is that it often requires foreknowledge of the potential. Someone can unknowingly destroy potential while still remaining relatively blameless if the act is blameless. Given that many old people are completely dependent on hospital staff and family, with very little productive "value" to the society, why do you believe we should keep the old alive?
A fetus is not a separate human being, just a collection of cells. Though it may share its genetic code to form a human being, it is neither a human being nor can be. A fetus has not yet grown into a human being. Same old argument. Fetuses are dependant on their MOTHER. People (from 1 day to 150 years) can be cared for by anyone who DECIDES to help. So, you have only avoided the question. Why is a fetus whole, but a sperm not?
I believe the answer to your question will be known when science determines why a sperm does not grow into a human being while a fetus does.
You mean cloning right? I think the medical procedure involved to do this would comparable with fertilization. The sperm is missing chromosomes?
The fetus is missing hands, legs, blood, and most of the rest of the body mass. If you want to say genes=human, then that is your choice, but remember all the poor little baby cells you are killing when you go out in the sun, eat, breath, sleep, etc etc. You're going to hell murderer. Ok, ok... a little over dramatic. Point being that you still are avoiding the question of why a fetus is human. The only definition I know of which is good at determining when a group of cells is developed enough to be human is: Cells from a human parent(s) which are capable of living for an extended period of time without the biological parent The majority of fetuses do not meet this.
Persol: Pardon my saying so, I do not know you at all, but your nonsense makes me sick. I find it difficult to believe that you are so brainwashed that you proceed with such a ridiculous argument, but it is your right. Talk on. Lemming3K: You asked about the cost. Usually, the guy pays the 500 bucks. This is far less expensive for him than 18 to 21 years of child support.
