Abortion Limit: UK

Discussion in 'Politics' started by universaldistress, Oct 12, 2012.

  1. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153
    Actually yeah, I get psychologically affected too. Money is pretty tight right now and every penny counts. Losing an organ wouldn't likely have me homeless but losign money can make me lose everything, even my children. I don't personally see death as that big of a deal. We all have to die some day, and when dead we have nothing further to worry about. But I wouldn't say my perspective in this regard is normal so, its of little consequence to the issue at hand I suppose.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,049
    Sorry yes I do if that 10 note is all I have to buy food for the night, that causes me physical pain. Or if its all the money I have to put petrol in car to get to work and so lose my job, yes money has a HUGE impact on life and quality of life
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153
    Would you be willing to have the fetus safely removed from your uterus so that it may be implanted into another woman's womb? It may require your abdomen wall to be split. Also are you aware of how damaging abortion is to the woman's body? Abortion is not natural and can cause permanent damage to a woman even when it goes exactly as it is supposed to. Pregnancy, when it goes smoothly does not cause permanent damage to the woman and is a perfectly natural process. I don't understand how you are equating pregnancy with horrific damage against the female body but do not see the abortion as, at least, equally horrific and damaging.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153
    I'm sorry, your previous post, below gave me the impression that you ARE upset. Perhaps I misinterpreted your words.

     
  8. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,913
    Of course, if there were some procedure where it could be removed (preferably early) in a safe manner and implanted into some other woman, then yes. If it were late term for some reason I'd consent to the surgery anyway considering my pelvis is so tiny I'd probably have to be cut open to give birth.

    Pregnancy may be natural, but there's a lot of damaging effects. Relaxin affecting joints, etc. Abortion is multiple times safer than having a baby; I don't know where you've pulled your stats from but every one I can find says abortion is safer.
     
  9. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,913
    Lol, that was several days ago.
     
  10. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,913
    *sigh* I get it. Women don't matter. Men's wants matter more than our right to our bodies.

    You know what makes me sick? Men are always complaining that women don't want enough sex. But then if we have sex, we're bad, selfish women who need to be punished with babies if one day that condom breaks.

    Either we're supposed to have sex or we're not. But no, men pick and fucking choose how their piss-illogical attempt at morality works. If women don't want sex oh poor men couldn't she be less stingy... but then when we do want and have sex we're in the wrong AGAIN unless we consent to have the baby.

    I knew there was a reason I stopped hanging out on this forum. Nothing in here but ten megatons of stupid.

    I'm out...and if ever some 300 lb guy decides to do anything to me...I'm having the abortion. And if ever a woman I know is pregnant from consensual sex and wants an abortion I'm getting her one, too. Cry about it.
     
  11. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153
    Artificially instigated death, a permanent solution to what could well be a temporary problem. Just seems like a waste to me and an unjustified act of selfishness. Removing life from something has its place and there are times when it is justified. I personally just don't feel it should ever be used to solve a temporary problem.
     
  12. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,913
    Protecting my own body, the only one I will ever have, is selfishness. Got it. How dare I fail to donate my own body as a life support system.
     
  13. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153
    Wow, you apparently have had some very bad experiences with men. My experiences with men are totally different than yours. Not all men act as you have described. The ones that do are usually not considered socially acceptable by anyone but other men like them. My first two husbands were bastards like the men you describe, but I have almost exclusively kept friendships with men and the majority of them do not behave as my exhusbands did or as the men you are describing. I know as many woman who be have as the men you describe as I do men. Answering chauvinism with chauvinism is not effective. It only lowers you to their level. If a 300 lb man decides to have sex with you, you may have bigger worries than abortion, like perhaps a crushed pelvis. I am sure you can exercise your right to be picky about who you have sex with and/or procreate with.

    If you open your mind a bit and get rid of this notion that all men are evil sex crazed bastards who care nothing about the feelings of women, you may discover there are some very sweet sincere sensitive guys out there who will defend your rights to the death, stand by your side and understand you. They may even make you feel good about the world. Neverfly does that for me, I will never give him a child because i got my tubes tied long before we met. But he doesn't demand a child from me in order to love me. If by some chance my surgery failed, and I become pregnant anyway, he would consider my health and safety before the hope of having a child with me. We have had a couple of scares so I know this for a fact. His first concern was whether or not I had a tubal pregnancy or if there was some other problem that made my cycle stop. We also considered, what if, he expressed that his first concern is for my life, if and only if I could safely carry to term without further detriment to my already existing medical problems would he even hope to have another child. so not all men are like you say. I am sorry that you obviously have met some real jerks in your life. Try to realize the majority of men are not like that.

    also for clarity, I was mistaken about whether you were upset before, should I also not interpret this post as an indication that you are upset? I'm not trying to upset you, just trying to understand what you are expressing here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  14. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153

    Unless you have some unique medical condition, there is no reason to perceive pregnancy as a danger to your body. I only feel its selfish when you totally disregard the father's rights to the child. After all you were willing to donate your body to the activity that produced the child, why not carry it through if he wants the child. Oh that's right you don't think men's feelings matter at all. That's ok because you don't think they care about your feelings. So in a tit for tat battle a man's child must die so you can prove that you matter. Well played.
     
  15. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,049
    Sorry but that's a cope out, to use tiassa's words if you don't want a child don't have sex or get snipped. That's his opinion of men who don't think they should have to slave every day of there lives, inhaling fumes, destroying mussels and ligiments, risking death (to many people die at work) to pay for a child they didn't want. How is that chauvinistic?

    If you don't want a child you have the same choice, no one is forcing you any more than they are forcing a man who you have sex with if and when you decide you do want a kid.
     
  16. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,913
    So a man's feelings trump a woman's right to her body. Thank you for illustrating my point.

    Oh and carrying it through is just some minor annoyance. Thank you AGAIN. His wants are a bigger deal than a woman's right to her own body. 'Why not carry it through'...and all that.

    Not like we have real people who need us, and who need us intact, not pregnant and suffering all the consequences.

    Sick. I'm truly freaking disgusted. None of you seem to even see women as human beings. You elevate a man's WANTS over our rights to our bodies. SHEER WANTS. Not needs. Not rights. Wants. Our internal organs are other people's freaking business.

    Asguard, I actually disagree with men having to pay for children they didn't have a say in creating. But no, you're too busy wanting rights over women's internal organs.

    Honest to goodness the fact that anyone places someone's FEELINGS over someone's body going through drastic changes, pain, and a litany of negative health effects is just sick. 'I want something, so you have to suffer the effects for nine months'.

    No.
     
  17. Neverfly Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,576
    I don't get it, either. You seem to say, "Men have zero say and no rights whatsoever."
    Holy hell- what kinda dumbasses have you been associating with?
    Also- stubborness...
    I would say to this:
    Let's say you and a man (Let's even go above and beyond and speculate that the guy is a Good Guy, not some turd.) engage in activities, you end up pregnant, it's only fair that you give him fair chance to try to convince you to carry his child to term. As it is from your commentary here, you seem utterly and totally unwilling to ever entertain that. But if it was a life you cared about, wouldn't you try to defend it?
    In the end, as the law is, if you say no, it's "no" and he cannot change that. This is only because late term abortions are Illegal. However, if they were legal - I'd be front row demanding the law be changed.
    So, you feel there are negative effects to pregnancy- Again, personal responsibility. You make a strong case- that's fine, but be willing to listen to other strong cases as well.
    Sadly, this topic is not something simple and easy- it's complex and convoluted. Allow for that.

    You're changing others words.
    No, it's not just a minor deal- but it's not the end of the world or some vicious life threatening event like you make it out to be, either.
    Utter nonsense, now you're just getting carried away.
    Commendable.
    Given a chance then, you'd prefer to not kill the fetus.
    However, currently, you seem to see it as, "My wants or its life."
    You then complain about "Mans wants or my not liking pregnancy."
     
  18. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153
    I AM a woman. I DO see myself as a human being. I consider it INHUMAN to put my petty fears and such ahead of HUMAN life. I also see it as INHUMAN to have no respect for fatherhood while demanding rights as a mother. I see it as INHUMAN to consider something as natural as procreation as some vile attack on a woman's body. I also see it as INHUMAN to not give a damn about what other people feel and want. Some even consider it sociopathic to not give a damn about how our actions affect others and only see other lifeforms as an inconvenience to our own lifestyle or an obstacle to achieving our own desires. I believe animals deserve more consideration than what you are affording to men. YOU seem to think men are just monsters out to get you and YOU have no regard for men's rights at all. YOU are as bad as the men you describe!
     
  19. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,523
    Hey hey what going on here, all it cool? Nothing got carried away into shear misandrogeny and hatefullness, right, RIGHT?
     
  20. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,830
    better show dislike of an idea than be a calm cold blooded killer.
     
  21. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153
    I looked up misandrogeny. Couldn't find a definition for it. Perhaps you meant to say misandry? If so then I do hope you are being sarcastic because if the post quoted below has no misandry or hate in it then I am completely lost.

    bolding is mine
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,582
    Right. Just as you are elevating a woman's WANTS over the life of another human being (a viable fetus.)

    There are no right answers in this debate. But there are some that are guaranteed to be wrong. And any answer that gives a black-and-white picture of the situation is pretty much guaranteed to be wrong.

    And that's different than "I want something, so I'll kill someone?"
     
  23. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,523
    As a neutral utilitarian, I have nothing against abortion, it minimizes suffering! What value is their in life if its one filled with suffering, hate and regret? Abortion allows for children to be born when its more likely that their parents will cherish them and raise them with love and joy. Imagine for a moment that a mother is forced to have a child she does not want, a child that will be raise with a resentful mother, absent father, ill raised to become a pain to society and add to its prison population, that the birth of this doomed child prevents the conception and birth of another child years later that the mother did want, that would have been raised in a stable family and become a productive member of society, statistically this is what is occurring when abortion is illegal thus I say in order to try to optimize happiness and minimize suffering, allow the doomed children to be aborted so that prosperous children may be give a chance to live.

    Now back to the OP proposition: Of course it gets more complicated when abortion is done as gendercide, yes suffering is reduced be aborting girls who would be born to cultures that would have them suffer as chattel, but then the boys born in said cultures will have no mates and will create much more suffering in the frustrated rage and revolution. Better would be to educate these cultures and do away with female bondage and thus the cause of their gendercide.
     

Share This Page