Bingo! What you posted is the truth, although it certainly isn't beyond logic, as your user title would indicate (haha). As inzomnia graciously pointed out, 98% of abortions (in the United States, if I recall correctly) are done for "personal reasons", which is nothing but a fancy, professional way of saying "I'm an irresponsible bitch who decided to have sex out of marriage, and by accident I was impregnated. I don't want to deal with dirty diapers and midnight madness, so would you politely vacuum the developing human being from my forbidden pit? Appreciate it!" Considering the staggering statistics (98%), it's safe to say that the "condoms can break!" crowd has permanently been rendered speechless, and for good reason. The "it's not your choice, it's the woman's!" argument is such bombastic bullshit that one feels compelled to stab the expresser of such hogwash in their cursed jugular. It's nobody's choice to liquidate developing life, unless that life directly harms its bearer. Under normal, healthy circumstances, abortion is a crime against humanity. Kadark the Accursed
It seems like you have made might makes right arguments in a variety of contexts. Is is only when women exercise power that you become compassionate?
But she/the father is a forced caregiver after? What if she/he decides to kill the child immediately after it is born for "personal reasons"?
Then she would have murdered a person she had committed herself to care for. I'm not clear on your line of reasoning - do you regard the development of a child and the bringing into existence of a human being in one's care an insignificant detail ?
I don't think I based my argument on whether the baby was hers. To some degree, but not enough for me. The baby can be placed on another full breast. The mother can have control of her body, no longer have the role of mother AND the baby can live.
"Might is right" arguments from me? Really? It's odd you would say that, considering I'm supporting the weakest entity in this entire debate (the developing baby). Next question. Kadark the Miracle
That was precisely my point. It seems like in response to other moral issues your response has been something like 'we (it, they) have the power, why should I care."
The baby of course, has no say before or after. It can still be an economic burden, a hindrance to the mothers health and social life, she should have the choice to do away with it. Why should anyone else care? After all, there is no regulation as to the number of abortions a woman can have, I know women who have had as many as three. :shrug:
but they do. Hence it is a different situation. I find your arguments that it is the same after birth unconvincing.
And I find the arguments that a child magically acquires rights after birth somehow strange. I mean would you let a woman do drugs in the first trimester?
Would you let her smoke in the first? If working leads to more problems, would you force all women to quit or take off from work? Should pregant women be allowed to drive? I am making no claim that a child magically acquires rights. I do not think rights exist. So I have no idea what the magical appearance of one would be like.
Kadark: Do you think males have any role or responsibility in this process? Do you eat meat? SAM: No, but she/the father have responsibilities to ensure the child's wellbeing - even if that only involves handing the child to some other trustworthy guardian. From a legal perspective, that would be murder. From a moral perspective, I think she has probably made the decision too late.
So if a woman was doing heroin in her first trimester that would not constitute abuse, because its not legally a child?
Not in my presence. I would take the cigarette from her and read her a riot act; in fact, I've done it to my father and he wasn't even pregnant Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
It's not child abuse. Nor is it illegal, by the way. On the other hand, to do heroin in the first trimester then go ahead and have the child is irresponsible and unfair to the child.
So interpersonally you would try to intervene. But would you support legal restrictions on pregnant women? As far as the heroin: she is abusing the woman/foetus unit and I too would get awefully cranky with her. I have to admit I would be hesitant to make grabs for the needle, but I might flush her stash. (ooh, I felt like I was in some bad Hollywood movie for a moment there)
