Abortion and the Death Penalty

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Cazzo, Jul 18, 2008.

?

I am :

  1. For abortion and for the death penalty.

    16 vote(s)
    41.0%
  2. Against abortion and against the death penalty.

    3 vote(s)
    7.7%
  3. Against abortion and for the death penalty.

    11 vote(s)
    28.2%
  4. For abortion and against the death penalty.

    8 vote(s)
    20.5%
  5. Not sure.

    1 vote(s)
    2.6%
  1. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,855
    It could be argued that it is not a person.

    But, to your point, it might be better to wait for that person to grow to at least a young man or woman, so we can strap some bombs to his ass.
     
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  3. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    But masturbation doesn't lead to conception

    I'm talking about conception, and afterwards, that IS a person, so killing him is unfair
     
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  5. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,913
    Ya, a viscous blob of cells is a person.

    nghghghhh. I give up.
     
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  7. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,479
    So any woman who has sex and menastrates than is a potential serial killer
     
  8. Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    That is my point..
     
  9. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    I think there is a vast difference between your nightly emissions and making an appointment with a doctor to vacuum out pieces of your fetus and scrape it off your uterus.
     
  10. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,245
    Why? There are religious people who also believe in the right of the individual to choose for themselves. Just as there are atheists who are against abortion.

    My mother, for example, is a strict Catholic who believes in the right of women to choose. She is personally against abortion, but she also respects the rights of women to choose and have autonomy over their own bodies.


    When you take a pain killer, you are playing God. Each time you go to the doctors for any ailment, you are expecting that doctor to play God when they attempt to make you better. When you drive a car, you play God in that you have in your hands, the power to take away another person's life (eg. running them over).

    "Making children" is like making pies. You do have to prepare the materials and then cook it. And yes, if you don't want that pie, you should be allowed to not be forced to cook it for 9 months. If that pie is making you sick or putting your health in danger, you should not be forced to keep endangering yourself for that 9 months. And if that pie is deformed or not viable, you should be allowed to not have it if you choose not to.

    I played God when I had both my children. I was the one who had to do everything I could to ensure their viability and their survival while they were inside me. Does that mean if something went wrong and I lost either or both, that I would have been somehow evil? And no, I don't believe in "spirits". Nor do I believe that a 5 week old foetus has a spirit.

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    That is the image of a 5 week old foetus. Do you think it is self aware or has "spirit"? I personally do not.

    You also forget to mention the fact that women naturally abort "babies" all the time, usually without their even knowing it.

    How so? Women abort children all the time without their even knowing they were pregnant and yes, it would be considered their "nightly emissions". What of women who take the morning after pill and actually are pregnant or have conceived, without their knowing it for sure? Is that somehow more palatable than the D&C?

    So aborting it at 6 weeks is unacceptable but giving it away is? Just give it to someone else? That's more acceptable to you? Possibly put the mother's life at risk during the pregnancy (eg. young teenage girls may not be physically developed enough to carry or give birth to a baby and could result in their death).. hey.. that's acceptable to you?

    Don't you think it should be up to the individual to decide for themselves whether they keep it or abort it?

    As Lucysnow commented earlier on in this thread. Would you be willing to adopt a couple of children who would otherwise have been aborted, but were put up for adoption? There are thousands upon thousands of such children and no homes for them to go to.
     
  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    I think a woman who rolls over her baby in her sleep and smothers him by mistake is not equal to a woman who puts her fingers around his throat and throttles him. A woman whose child wanders into the family pool and drowns is not equivalent to one who holds her kids head down in the bathtub to drown him. Deliberate murder is not the same as unknowing or unconscious deaths.
     
  12. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,245
    Depends. If she is exhausted and knows she's going to fall asleep if she lies down and puts the baby next to her on the bed anyway.. Or if she has taken a sleeping pill or had one too many drinks.. Hence why you are strongly advised to never have the baby with you in bed.

    But to keep this in perspective and on topic, a 6 week old fetus is not a "baby".
     
  13. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    So you're saying its alright to suck off bits and pieces off a 6 week old fetus? Because its not a baby? Of course most elective abortions are performed between 8 and 12 weeks

    Thats doc speak for tearing off the fetus from the uterus.

    Now this is an 8 week old fetus

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    12 week old fetus

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    Looks like a baby to me.
    http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/on-line/lifecycle/52.asp
     
  14. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,049
    bells i agree with abortion but even so there is a HUGE diffence between a D&C and the morning after pill for the women involved and especially if its because of a misscarage her partner and there families
     
  15. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,245
    If the woman wishes to have it removed, then yes, for her it is alright.

    If you disagree with the procedure, don't have one. But it is not for you, me or anyone else to judge or call a woman a murderer if she decides to have one.

    I am well aware of what it means.

    And?

    It's still not a "baby". Not at 8 weeks or at 12 weeks.
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Why not? Its flexing its limbs and its skin is sensitive to touch by 12 weeks. What is a baby?
     
  17. Bells Staff Member

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    24,245
    A baby is something that is born. A child..

    A 1.5 cm fetus at 8 weeks and a 7.5cm fetus at 12 weeks is not a "baby".
     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    So when you were pregnant at 2 months, 3 months, etc. you referred to your products of conception as a fetus? embryo? you did not consider it a baby until it was born? you would not oppose abortion at any stage if it was safe for the mother?
     
  19. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,245
    I didn't actually. Then again, I was quite ill during both pregnancies and no one, not my doctors, specialists or midwives ever referred to it as anything but the "embryo" or "fetus" or "it". It was only when I hit 36 weeks and discussions about pulling them out early since they were then viable, did they or myself, even mention the word "baby". I didn't think "baby" until my eldest was held up to me and placed on my chest when he came out and when I nearly lost the second one during his birth and begged the obstetrician who was trying to figure out what had happened to save my "baby" as I was being rushed into theater. It was really quite surreal to be honest. But no, I didn't really think of it as a "baby". A baby to me is something I can hold, smell, touch.. something that is real and out of the womb. While they are in the womb, they are less real to me.. an experience that is hard to put into words.

    How can I put it.. women who wish to keep it usually feel attached to it and might refer to it as a "baby" or even name it. But not every woman is the same.
     
  20. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Hmm so you do not consider an unborn child as living. How odd.
     
  21. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,245
    Until it is viable? No I do not. Simply because it cannot live outside of the womb.
     
  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    So what? It is still alive. Even after being born, if you left it in the woods, it would die. Thats no reason to consider it not a baby. Anyway, different strokes for different folks.
     
  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,237
    There are child protection laws where I live; I'm not sure about your country. Injecting a child with heroin could result in your child being taken away for its own protection where I live.

    If one is ok, then in principle 20 is ok. Of course, each one must be judged on its merits.

    A woman may not want a child now, but might want one later.

    I think you'll find that a vanishingly small proportion of women use abortion as birth control. Abortion is a complex surgical procedure. It's much much easier to go on the pill, or use a condom, believe me.

    It is estimated that as many as 1 in 4 pregnancies results in spontaneous abortion in the first trimester.

    Every time somebody uses contraception, they are "playing God" in the same way. Are you against contraception?

    Do you think you belong to God? Don't you have free will?
     

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