A world with a loving God.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Xelasnave.1947, Nov 2, 2019.

  1. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Gate-keeper.
     
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  3. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Hmm, not everyone. lol
    Most?
    So, do you believe that evolution was a God-guided process?

    Me, too. I believe in Jesus' teachings, as well. I'd say though that I believe science and faith can coexist, but unfortunately, many theists are branded ''irrational,'' if they think God had anything to do with creation.
     
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I see, we are like an ant-farm for God's entertainment. Good to know.
     
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Why should Jesus' teachings be evidence of God? Is Muhammad's teaching evidence of Allah?

    I asked both Christians and Muslims if the Christian God is the same god as Allah. They both said: "No".
    Riddle me that one.

    And as Lewis Black observed: "The OT is the book of my people, the Jews. And that book was not good enough for you Christians......., was it?
    You had a new God, a better God, you're gonna love him!
    You called your book New and my book Old........"
    He goes on: "On Sundays I see Christian preachers preach from my book and they usually get it wrong.
    It's not their fault, it's not their Book!"

    Why don't religious people sort out their own Books and Gods, before they presume to lecture atheists?
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  8. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    It is so nice to read the various posts here.

    Off topic but at least old men get to chat in an effort to display their whatever.

    Few if any speculate upon the question raised in the op.

    Jan proceeds happily on his assumptions that the rest of us continually seek to determine what those assumptions may be.

    All aside we have this proposition.
    There is no evidence of any god and no evidence that any made up god passed any of his thoughts to humans...thousands of made up gods yet all are folly....so we are left with mere speculation upon god firstly that he may exist and secondly if he existed how any of his views were communicated to humans...how insanely presumptious...oh yes we we know all gods messages his thinking etc...such is unsupported speculation ..delussional wanderings...and so let's speculate..what would the world be if a loving god..or any god at all existed, we have thousands from the BS pile to choose...the world must or would have to be better one could think if there was just a hint of intelligent input...no deaths from inequity etc....come on you delusional apologists give it your best shot...what would it be if there was a god?...and then embrace reality..the universe had no start so no creator.. no creator...if you claim a god then tell us via your connection and understanding of his wants...how should we find the world...a d perhaps you claim why your god of choice is any more believable than the he thousands of gods we all reject...why is it so difficult for appogists to reject just one more...at least please address the op.
    Alex
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
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  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Jan will probably try to weasel out of this one too. Notice how he carefully did not specify which "people" he was referring to, there? That leaves it open to him to define some particular group that has the required majority view, later.

    To tie things down a little, consider the United States, which is probably the most religious western nation. The breakdown of beliefs about evolution is complicated but interesting.

    I'm using information from an article here, which uses poll data from 2014 and 2015:

    https://slate.com/technology/2015/11/polls-americans-believe-in-evolution-less-in-creationism.html

    Things have probably moved on a bit in the past 5 years.

    In 2014, apparently about 50% of Americans believed in some form of evolution. Of those, about 19% accepted "scientific" evolution (i.e. no god involved or needed). Another 31% believed in evolution "guided by god", which means they basically accepted science but believed that God pops in every now and then to tweak the outcomes according to His Divine Plan. On this basis, it might just be possible to say that, back in 2014, most Americans didn't believe in evolution, by a whisker. I suspect things have moved on since then, because the old Creationists are gradually dying out and the young Americans are better educated than their parents were (honest information on evolution is easily to obtain in America for young people these days). But rather than being a move away from religious belief, some of the big movements are within evolutionary-believing group: Americans are drifting away from the "guided by god" belief towards purely scientific evolution.

    In 2015, about 73% of Americans younger than 30 expressed an acceptance of evolution, with 51% accepting scientific evolution. On the other hand, about 34% of Americans aged 50 to 64 believed in creationism, and 37% of those aged 65 or over were self-identified creationists. If Jan is in the over-50 demographic, probably a lot of his friends and contacts are creationists, which might explain his skewed view about "most people".

    Creationism is indisputably a religious belief. "Scientific creationism" is an oxymoron. Of Americans who attend church or synagogue at least once a week, close to 50% are self-described creationists. For white evangelicals, the number is 60%. Neither of those figures has changed in more than 30 years.

    Bear in mind that this is America, One Nation Under God, rah rah rah. In less religion-addled western nations, acceptance of evolution tends to be higher. The only country with less public acceptance of evolution than the United States is Turkey, based on surveys taken in 32 European countries (including Turkey) and the United States.

    Also interesting (and telling) is the statistic that less than 5% of American scientists identify as creationists (the figure was 5% back in 1991, which is a long time ago). On the other hand, approximately 97% of all scientists accept that evolution is the best explanation for biological diversity.

    To summarise: evolution is overwhelmingly supported by scientific experts. The most likely reason for any given person explicitly rejecting scientific evolution is that they regard the theory of evolution as in conflict with religious beliefs that they hold.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  10. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    So you say.
    Do you look outside the Bible etc ..do you understand the history leading to the Bible?
    Or are your words written having in mind the complexities you perceive within time period limited by the Bible? What superior knowledge do you claim?
    Alex
     
  11. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Before Jan tries to pull the wool over your eyes yet again, let's be clear: Jan doesn't believe in evolution, period. Not in any meaningful sense. Not in the way that any competent scientist would use that term. Jan is a creationist, not a believer in "guided" evolution.
     
  12. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    It's not what I mean...address the BS out there..it's not mine you know.
    Jan the proposition is simple please give me a direct honest reply.
    Come on Jan pick one or the other.
    Cut to the bottom line...if God has control why do we have sexual abuse? Does it make him happy?
    Stop sidestepping and address the issue.
    Alex
     
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  13. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    ??? Seriously

    You may as well prey to the god he believes in for a rational response

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  14. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    You’re the one who asked the question.
    I don’t know what you mean by “a loving God”.
    Let’s start with what is “loving”.

    “feeling or showing love or great care.”

    An obvious parallel is “loving father”

    That being said, I’ve already written about that.


    You’re jumping on the “atheist bandwagon too”?
    I’ve replied. Now it’s up to you to respond to that reply.
    I don’t need to.
    Already dealt with the issue.
    If you don’t like my response, that’s too bad.
    Maybe this isn’t the discussion for you.
     
  15. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Yes they do, because it’s a reality.
    They might not know to call it evolution, but they have to accept it. You can draw it to their attention, by looking at the different types of animals that adapt to certain condition. For example horses grow hair to combat very cold climates, and shed it when it gets warm.
    Everyone accept that.
    They accept the word of the popularisers, and mainstream scientists.
    Just like they accepted the popularisers, and mainstream religious leaders back in the day.
    I believe nothing can happen, without the Will of God.
    You shouldn’t have to hold that belief.
    Everybody has faith!
    And not the stupid idea of there being different types of faith. One for the theist, and a different one for the atheist. Don’t fall for that. That’s just another way to popularise the idea that there is no God.

    As long as you think that, they will know that you are still kind of on the fence.
    Hence James R trying to prevent you from theism, by obsessively, following me around, and trying to deride me.

    Being “branded irrational” is to be expected from “those” types. They will not stop!
    As long as there are theists, their world view remains incomplete. They can’t relax.

    What do “those” peeps do on here?
    Look at the content of their posts, then take out all the negative stuff about God, religion, and theism. See what you have left.[/quote][/QUOTE]
     
  16. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Whose lecturing atheists?
    They can stay atheist as far as I’m concerned.
    It’s the best position for them to be in.
     
  17. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    It’s a start.
     
  18. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Since when has being a reality been sufficient for everyone to believe in it? The world is not flat, yet some people do not believe that reality and instead believe the world is flat. So for you to offer “because it’s a reality” as support for your claim that everyone accepts evolution is insufficient.
    That in itself is not evidence of evolution, though, but rather just a biological trait that those horses happen to have. Move them to different temperatures and they grow coats accordingly. If God came along and created horses with that capability, where is the evolution?
    What do you think evolution is? Have you just seen the word “adapt” in relation to evolution and understood that to mean that anything that can adapt to different environments does so due to evolution??
     
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Yep it is consistent and compatible with all other atheists.

    A better question is; Are you sorting your books and beliefs among all other theists?
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    A start of what?
    Belief that God created me to be like an ant in His ant-farm?
    Belief that I am an ant?
    Belief that being an ant in an ant-farm is a desirable purposeful existence?
     
  21. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    The Earth I experience is flat. As for the whole earth,?I can only go on what evidences there are. But the “reality” is, I don’t know.
    The idea of “acceptance” is different from what is objectively true. Most people will accept, when informed of reality they are aware of, what is objectively true.
    Why is that not evidence of evolution/natural selection? Isn’t that what Darwin experienced with the finches?
    The evolution is built into the creation.
     
  22. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Lol Some of these replies. Do some of you actually believe that most believers cling to the idea of God, as being a controlling ant farmer? Oh my.

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    Not sure why some non-theists/believers feel the need to degrade and insult believers in this way. How do you expect Jan to honestly answer your questions, Write4U when your questions are not genuine, they’re just designed to insult him?
     
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  23. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I’m here to engage in discussion.
    Why are you here?
     
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