A simple question about absolute death

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Andrew256, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Andrew256:

    Because your consciousness is contingent on a whole lot of things coming together in just the right way. To get the same you over again, you'd need to revert the state of the universe to what it was when the first you was produced. And that's not going to happen.

    To recreate you, we'd have to first recreate your parents, then somehow make sure that the particular combination of genes that went into making you was exactly the same, and so on and so forth.

    Those states might be equal as far as you are concerned, but they are not equal as far as the rest of the universe is concerned. The universe will have moved on between your pre-birth and your post-death, in such a way that the conditions that pertained during your pre-birth will never occur again.

    Yes. A very very high probability indeed. Not in this universe, anyway.

    Our universe isn't infinite in time, though, as far as we can tell. It's only 14 billion years old now, and it won't last forever (at least not with conditions suitable for producing life).
     
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  3. Andrew256 Registered Member

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    I'm sorry, I'm going to quote without names because it's easier to compose a multi-quoted message.

    Yes! It would be fundamentally unknowable to any living being. That green lizard will not be you specifically. Absolutely new memories and experience. However, this specific green lizard from Andromeda can exhibit the same sense of self, as you do right now. Wondering why it's sense of self is bound to it specifically and to no other being. It can be the same as "you" right now.

    I think that you don't need any previous experience or events to aquire the sense of "self" which will be only bound to you.

    This is very close to what I want to express. Just memories and experience are not enough to form the sense of self. I think there is some underlying universal mechanism at play here wich we can't even begin to understand with our current mindset.
    That sense of "self" which you experience right now might be just repeated over and over again in other beings, but if there's no current you anymore, that sense of "you" might be binded (attached? for the lack of better word) to someone else (to the mr. Green Lizard from Andromeda).

    I have meant a totally different thing. We don't need to get the same "me" again. Nor does it need to recreate the same parents, memories or experience. All we need is another being wondering "what it means to be me?" the same way as we do here and now.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
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  5. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    I think most of us have a sense of self. Does that mean we are all the same?
     
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  7. Andrew256 Registered Member

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    It is unknown what separates one sense of self from another. Some say it's memories and experience, some say it's "continuity of mind". I'm trying to explore the idea that it's some underlying universal mechanism that binds you to "you". And figure out the probability of it happening again after your current binding is lost.
     
  8. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    Different brains, different self.
    Different brains.
    Your consciousness arises from your brain.
    Current binding? When your brain dies your consciousness dies. Do you have some evidence to the contrary?
    Or am I missing your point?
     
  9. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Me thinks you over think it. I would not think of any underlying universal mechanism and I doubt a different mindset would bring about further understanding

    The concept is intriguing but I don't consider it goes further

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  10. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    It appears to me that "self" is just a by product of the brain doing its thing. As such, it's fairly obvious what separates one "self" from another "self".
     
  11. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    If we are all conscious beings, where does the distinction begin and end?
     
  12. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    At the scalp.
     
  13. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    The source of that sense of self is the same. Every one has it.
     
  14. Andrew256 Registered Member

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    There's billions of brains on this planet. But every morning you wake up as you, and no one else. Why is that?
    That's A million dollar question. Why your mind is bound to your, and only your brain? Is there any reason your mind can't be bound to any other brain again at any point in the space time after your current brain dies? I see no obstacles.
     
  15. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    Is there any need to be anyone other than who I am?
     
  16. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    When you turn your computer on every morning, it has your files in it and not mine. Why is that?
     
  17. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    I am one wit the universe... an many people are oK wit less than that because we all have diferent experiences which lead us to diferent paths.!!!
     
  18. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    Life seems to take us where we need to be.
     
  19. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Life takes us whare we are.!!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  20. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    Seriously? I am not even sure how to respond to that. Let's just leave it that your brain's electro-chemical functioning IS your consciousness. Consciousness cannot be separated from the brain.
    You seem to think that your consciousness is some identity that is separate from the brain. There is zero evidence of this as far as I am aware, do you have evidence to the contrary?
    Since your consciousness is the electro-chemical functioning of your brain, what you are talking about is impossible.
    I do not think you are looking...
     
  21. Andrew256 Registered Member

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    Yes, but before you die, you are born. You consciousness is formed from something. What's stopping this process from repeating itself? Do you think this process happens only once in a whole span of universe existance? And if there are more universes coming after ours? This is not religious, but philosophocal and metaphysical question.

    But how can you say that when we haven't come even close to understanding the true nature of consciousness. Thousands of years ago we didn't understand electricity and now look at us. Let's wait couple of thousands of years before making conclusions.


    - Why does the apple fall?
    - Because nothing is holding it

    Yes. Every human, every mammal, and maybe even insects, although they probably don't realize it. Still doesn't answer the question - why you is specifically you? Something happened that you became you and continue to be you. A random coincidence?
    Is there a need for an apple to fall, or a meteor to follow it's thousand year course across the galaxy? Some things happen without need, but, I'm sure as hell would like to know how they happen.
    True I suppose, otherwise I might be somewhere else too busy not dying from hunger and wouldn't have time to wonder about the essence of my consciousness.
     
  22. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    I believe Self is universal. It is born, dies, and is born again. Any projection you might have of yourself comes from the mind, which does die.
     
  23. Andrew256 Registered Member

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    Here, I believe Bowser is very close to what I'm trying to say
    The mind dies, as does the consciousness with all of it's memories and experiences. But the perception of Self is formed again when a new brain (a complex machine of electro-chemical reactions) is created from the DNA sequence.

    And, just in case, I do not make a claim, and I do not "believe" anything. I just think one theory have a better chance at being correct than another, that's all.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017

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