A science view of god. Easier to believe.

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by kwhilborn, Feb 24, 2013.

  1. kwhilborn Banned Banned

    I know many will wish I said "A Pseudoscience view of god" in the title, but I was pressed for room.



    Buddha - “There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth; not going all the way, and not starting.”

    Now being a new age thinker as you claim then perhaps it would help thinkers like yourself to rationalize god in scientific terms. I do believe, so I am going to spend a few minutes portraying my side from a more practical standpoint than your mother.

    Let's explore statement. This type of thinking come mostly from one religion and that is forms of Christianity. Many are taught to be humble and giving and not be selfish. Think about that for a moment.

    Jesus was never poor. If you recall Judas was his ministry Treasurer, and poor people did not need Treasurers. The executioners drew lots for his cloak because he had a cloak worth drawing lots for.

    Now let's look at religions collectively. Are there any commonalities?

    All religions seem to require
    a) Prayer
    b) An attitude of gratitude/thankfulness
    c) Power of belief and faith.

    Let's use those three for starters. You speak like someone taught a Christian Religion so I will use some Christian "knowledge" here although I could alter ths discussion to allow any religion.
    If you pay attention to these quotes Jesus does a lot of saying that people can heal themselves if they have faith in their abilities. He does not say "If you have faith god or I will heal you", He says, "Your Faith has made you well, or Your faith will heal you".

    Jesus does not say that he or god will work any miracles. Jesus says it IS YOU that work the miracles. It is almost as if "Man was created in Gods image" and included the powers of creation.

    so when you hear a bible passage that reads,

    Does the above statement imply that it is Jesus or God that will move the mountain with faith? No.

    Okay so where am I gong with this.

    You suggested you have examined new age religions. Here is one that does not seem religious but it embodies all manners of convectional religions.

    The Law of Attraction. Before you roll your eyes completely, let me have my say for a few minutes.

    The idea behind law of attraction is that what you think about is attracted to you. If you worry constantly about bills it suggests that you will get more bills to worry about. If you dwell upon a single thought like "Dolphins" then you will begin to see more dolphins in your daily life. Many psychologists will say that if you are looking for these coincidences then of course you will find them, but I am speaking from the stance that these things seem to happen almost miraculously.

    Carl Jung noticed this effect and termed the word synchronicity to describe it. Before you write it off as nonsense it might be at least prudent to pay attention to what you think and what you attract. I am experienced in this topic and can say I have seen some very odd synchronicity. I know it will be attributed by those here as I described. If you look for specific things you will see them. I am speaking on an entirely different level. I am describing what I believe has a basis in science, but if you look at it from certain standpoints I am saying there really is magic in the Universe.

    Real magic. This way of thinking if true allows that a great multitude of seemingly insane concepts like Magick, Precognition, PSI is all true. There could be real
    magic. This could be real if what I describe is actual, and I believe in all of what I say here now.

    Now this "Law of Attraction" has advocates that suggest certain ways to keep attracting good things into your life as opposed to more worry and bills. Let's look at that.

    They suggest 3 things.
    a) Pray - They say "Ask the Universe for something" / intent.
    b) Be Thankful - Attitude of Gratitude. If you indeed attract more of what you think what better attitude to hold. Then you attract more reasons to be grateful.
    c) Have faith - They say believe it will happen and forget about it.

    If you notice this "New Age Religion" does not consider itself a religion, but the practices and precepts are the same.

    You could verily say that Jesus taught the law of attraction thousands of years ago. Jesus was famous for saying it was your own faith that allowed you to do things like walk on water.

    Now you said in your OP
    I will address the starving in a few paragraphs, but let's deal with the "How dare you".

    If Jesus and the LOA advocates were correct and it is your own thoughts and beliefs affecting your world then you can be a mini-god going around creating your own miracles and situations. Imagine you are driving to the mall. You quickly ask the universe/god/your mind/ or whatever label you address this request to for a great parking spot near your favorite store. You clearly visualize it being empty and you have faith (which comes with practice) that it will be there waiting for you.

    HOW DARE THEY ask for a parking spot when the poor are starving. What if I told you everyone has this ability, however it is harder for some to believe that they will get a meal when they have not had one in a week. Believing can be very hard to overcome and is a huge obstacle when learning this.

    This is slightly off topic, but I have also spent most of my life exploring psi subjects as a hobby and have also seen extraordinary things happen which although is proof enough for myself lacks credibility for most. I have come to view god as "All That is" plus perhaps a little but more. There is a fabric of the Universe that is god in my view. You could say "God knows every sparrow that falls in the forest because god is every sparrow that falls in the forest."

    So viewing god as a little old man with a cane is insane to me and I view it as if god is some sort of as yet undiscovered substance that permeates all matter, plus a bit more.

    I view god as a natural law/entity. I also think god can think though, so be careful how you ask for things. I once prayed that a dog I found and couldn't keep would be happy for the rest of its life. It turned out the adopting family named the dog "Happy", so my prayer came true (sort of). God does have humor.

    God is also limited as to what occurs on our planet. I believe god / universal consciousness/ All That is, must abide by our natural laws and this is why you see starving children in third world countries.

    I think if you want to play around with any of these idea then several good paths to take would be to research Law of Attraction and give it a real shot or practice psi. A guilt ridden prayer is not as likely to work. Pray for the dang parking spot. BE SELFISH. It is your mind, your faith, and it is you that is now doubting god.

    Now I have described what god is and how to use god, now let me discuss how I believe god operates and miracles occur.

    Imagine (don't ever imagine bad stuff really) some stranger has an accident and they pray for a miracle to save their life or life of a loved one. Now imagine that an hour a go a paramedic got a fly in his soup and it turned his stomach enough that he left the restaurant and was driving directly behind you and saw the accident and was first on the scene. Now you just prayed for god to do some saving 30 seconds ago, but circumstances that brought the miracle paramedic happened over an hour ago in our history.

    This means god must alter history to affect change. This would need to be true for many suggested miracles and synchronicity to be true.

    Note: also research Synchronicity on your quest for knowledge.

    This part is my own theory but I think is the only way to account for altering our history. Telepathy through time is certainly one way to look at this possibility but have developed a quantum theory that I think is true, and it will certainly get boo'd in this thread.

    First of all you need to know about the Double slit experiment and a bit about wave/particle dualty. I am unsure if you partake in those discussions so I will point to the Fred Wolf (Dr Quantum) video as it explains it so neatly.


    Now some people are deemed crazy for thinking that our very consciousness can cause collapse. This means that if nobody is in your bathroom to collapse the wave then your bathroom is not really in existence.

    Now Schrodinger thought that the idea of consciousness causing collapse was ridiculous and suggested a fake experiment where we imagine a cat in a box has a 50/50 chance of living or dying in an enclosed box. Collapsing matter with thought might suggest that the cat really is neither dead or alive inside this box until a consciousness observes the cat and collapses the wave. The experiment was even expanded to include the box peeker himself who is then collapsed himself in a further thought experiment called "Wigners friend"


    I believe we all live in a version of Schrodingers box. When you are alone you are only in superposition/Juxtaposition. I believe that when you look into Schrodingers box you do not have a 50% chance of seeing a live or a 50% chance of seeing a dead cat. I believe that the observer will see what he expects to see. I think if the observer believes the cat is alive the cat will be alive, and vice versa. This is where faith comes in. Instead of collapsing waves based on the probabilities, I think they are collapsed based on "FAITH" (Faith enters the picture).

    Now in our world we can be in constant superposition, but our nature makes our lives seem fluent and normal.

    We don't use a schrodingers box. we use the world. We collapse our friends and relatives, and so does Wigner. Events change based on faith. History can change to suit the present. Maybe we are always in superposition. Some day in the future maybe an alien to our planet greets someone and the entire world of individuals collapse.

    So instead of saying consciousness causes collapse, I will say it is EXPECTATION THAT cause collapse.

    I could actually measure this by taking a 50/50 possibility device and stopping strangers in a mall. I could tell them they have a 75% chance of getting the green colour and 25% of getting the red. If they choose green the majority of the time then it could help verify my results. Do you see a problem with this (aside from lab setting)?

    The problem is even if I got excellent results it would only be in my state of superposition. A few skeptics come along and collapse Wigner and I and proof their EXPECTATIONS ARE FACTORED INTO MY RESULTS and we get a hodgepodge of mixed results likely more towards the 50/50 level .


    To learn more about Telepathy simply set a time each day to exchange thoughts with a friend for 2 weeks and you will have unlocked all of its mysteries, and to learn about the Law of Attraction there is a myriad of books although The Secret Movie has been a good starting place for many.

    Look at this video. The woman is a respectable celebrity just so it is more palatable to some Doubting Thomas types but notice she brings a movie to her as if by magic and without setting out to actually do that. Also notice how history might have altered to bring her this manifestation.

    I understand a celebrity endorsement does not make this real, but she is known to be very successful in life and is NOT endorsing this simply to make money. She is genuinely endorsing "The Secret" because of a strong personal belief. She states at the end, "YOU REALLY CAN CHANGE YOUR REALITY BASED ON THE WAY YOU THINK."

    I understand Sciforums people would rather have Einstein notarize this concept before accepting it, but the facts are that science is not even exploring this type of (many call it woo) pseudoscience. This celebrity speaks her mind and is trusted by many. When this movie "The Secret" came out she had a one week long special about it on her show.

    The best way to enact LOA in my opinion is by writing all of your goals in a notebook. Then you rewrite your goals in the order you want them. Check them off as they occur and read out loud at least 5 times per day saying "I have" in front of each item. It is IMPORTANT not to state it as "I WILL HAVE" as WILL is always in the future and is bad form. State it like you have it already.

    Here is another compilation of celebrities. Now this is because celebrities are successful, and if they endorse this freely without recompense it might have a ittle more sway than a guy selling his book. I have seen synchronicity work crazy stuff. This works.

    Another celebrity speech, This guy says "Thoughts are physical", and "we would command and DEMAND that the universe becomes what we want it to be"

    When you can make opportunities and objects arrive on your doorstep WITHOUT filling out an order form on Ebay then maybe you understand that this magic is real. Some call it prayer. Some call it intention. Whatever you call it it is real and you are missing out if you don't use magick.

    Many LOA practitioners do not even THINK it is RELIGION, but I see it as the same thing.

    Note: all the science being objected in my post is already known by me. Maybe it is simply PSI affecting history, although I know many '"want proof". The point is this post is a decent piece on how a scientist can accept god in my opinion. I do not know why so many people envision an old man with a cane. If god exists he must be a part of everything. I stand by the overall concept. Berate at will, but I feel no need to defend my position as it is obvious woo in the eyes of many here.

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