A question concerning Marijuana..

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by machaon, Nov 26, 2001.

  1. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    You are right Scilosopher.

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    It is good to do some studying about the subject. I am 41 by now, that is why I use the Herb for such a long time. I was 15 when I started using Marijuana. Used to use it every day. At the moment I don't use it though. (For now!

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    )

    I was terrible way back in my teens and early twenties. Used a lot of garbage in those days. Not only Marijuana. Stopped with the garbage and the Marijuana stayed. Perhaps it has taken some of my brains, could be. I am not such a thinking person anyway and I am still capable of doing what I always did and my knowlegde has increased over the years. With the use of Marijuana, so I don't know if it really affects the memory or not. The things I learned at school, I still know and I studied at the University when I was off the garbage. maybe I am just lucky not to have damaged myself completely, for the garbage, you better stay away from. Got a lot of trouble by getting rid of it.

    Wish I could meet you in Amsterdam. Always a lot of fun there. And there are a lot of different kinds in Marijuana and Hasj you can buy there, yes.

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  3. esp Registered Senior Member

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    What news from Rome?

    News Flash!

    The UK govt. has leaked (announced) that they are preparing to run further tests on MJ. From this, and the current political climate, experts expect cannibis to be available as a prescription pain killer within the next two years.

    Of course, many see this as another step closer to complete legalization.
     
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  5. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    U.K. finally saw the light...?

    Wow, that's worth smoking a good joint my friend.

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    Perhaps, maybe, in a couple of years the U.K. will give Marijuana free.

    Well, the U.K. is a little slow with certain 'things'.

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    Have to admit that they are making progress in this case. there are not many countries which have MJ on prescription. I only know of the Netherlands doing this. In the Netherlands they are sometimes a little to eager with freedom, in different way's then the Marijuana subject.

    To free the Marijuana and Hasjiesj was a wonderful decision. It is cheep too.

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    Good to hear another country is coming to its senses in the 'Legalize Marijuana Now' subject.

    It's about time though. A lot of humans will have less pain with this Herb...

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  7. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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  8. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    Nice link Adam...

    *But recent changes in the drugs policy may have unintentionally jeopardised the separation between dope and harder drugs. In 1996, coffee shops were banned from selling to anyone under 18, which has "thrown a big vulnerable group onto the street", says Arjan Roskam, head of a union for coffee-shop owners.

    While the amendment was intended to delay the age at which teenagers start experimenting with drugs, it has probably only diverted users to less regulated sources. According to the Trimbos Institute, a mental health and addiction centre in Utrecht, about 10 per cent of under-age smokers now buy from criminal suppliers.*

    This is what I experienced with some friends of my son, who is almost 15 by now.

    Because of them getting 'bad' Marijuana and for a much to high prize, as well for themselves as for their low money budget, I bought it sometimes for them. I can hear the comments already, think about it before you jump all over me. The boy's wanted to smoke it at any price. Didn't matter in what way they could lay their hands on it. Their parents punished them heavily for only smoking a cigarette. As most people know very well, the young boy's and girls will do it then just more persistive. Best way to handle this, is let them smoke.

    So I bought 'good' Marijuana for them and they even smoked it at my home. It decreased in a while. Oh, they want to smoke it still, it is just not that attractive any more, because they can do it whenever they want. And it is really no fun to be high on Marijuana during the day, when you have all kind of things to do.

    What happened was that the forbidden 'fruit', was not forbidden any more. Now they smoke every once in a while, Marijuana coming from the Coffee-Shop, not from the streets, where the dealers sell Heroin and Cocain also and bring serious damage to these 'kids'.

    I think this was a good way to handle this, I've been in the tredmill of drugs, as well the nasty drugs as the good, old Marijuana. Well, I've learned my lesson the hard way. Don't want this to happen to one of the young boy's who visits my house and shall do everything I can to keep them off the nasty goods.

    I will do some more reading on the website you gave and come back here with some more comments, just because I like to do so. I stay with my statement that Marijuana is a good medicine, no matter what...

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  9. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    Hey, I won't mind laughing at me, but I never have smoked, used alchocol or drugs in my life and probably never will (I feel no need for them). My thoughts are tht if not too much used marjuana does no harm (not more thn tabacco), but real drugs like coke are really bad and the problem with mj is tht it makes many to try smthing stronger. Just last week two oversmoked russian guys forced them in in one of the summerhouses by the sea shore where a party was going on. a girl was celabrating her 18th byrthday party. she and her friend who prottested on the intrusion were killed by one of the narcs by a shotgun. all others were dressed out, their clothes and mobiles taken and they went away as nthing had happened. they were caught the next day. so in hands of stupid and smart people tht don't think drugs may turn out to be a real disaster as for them and others. Maybe in US the situation is better, but here (if we need to go to suburbs or outskirts of the city) we usually gather 2 or usually more friends and then go in groups, because of the narcs tht don't fear anything and have lost all their logic.

    So I guess tht in Latvia the time for legalising marijuana is not right and won't be for another 10 years or so. but I think tht using mj is better than alchocol or smoking tabacco full of chemicals. at least mj is a natural product.
    Cheers!

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  10. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    What a sad story Avatar.

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    Guess you are very right here. If there is so much violence and hatred going on, then you better think twice. How sad, that situation in your homeland. Guess those narcs used something much stronger then Marijuana. Only MJ makes you feel more relaxed, not more agressive. Alcohol makes agressive too, quite a bit even. Should have been too much of everything, as happens a lot, also in other countries. Misabuse of drugs and alcohol.

    It has a lot to do with your mentality also if you start with the 'hard' drugs or not. When I started to use Marijuana and Hasjiesj, I was in a bad shape, so to say. The Cocaine, LSD and Heroin came in pretty quick. Wish I'd never learned about the 'hard' drugs, for it really is damn hard to get rid of it. Got rid of it a long time ago and I am glad I did so.

    I hope the situation will be better in your country in the future. So sad and such a shame to hear how humans treat eachother.

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    And you are right about MJ, it is a pleasure Herb, pure Natural, which helps out in certain diseases too. Alcohol has never pleased me, I don't like it at all. Tobacco came with the first joint...

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  11. esp Registered Senior Member

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    I think tht using mj is better than alchocol or smoking tabacco full of chemicals
    avatar

    Too true mate

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    You should check out my gateway theory earlier in this thread.
    It says that, essentialy, people progress to stronger drugs because mj is illegal.
     
  12. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Because of them getting 'bad' Marijuana and for a much to high prize, as well for themselves as for their low money budget, I bought it sometimes for them. I can hear the comments already, think about it before you jump all over me.

    Heb je got mijn votum wanneer u wel eens uitmaken voor stormloop voor naar de " ministerie van Jongeren Programma ". Op verschijnen u zitten zeerst gerechtigd voor voorsprong onze jongeren te zulks millennium en zeker naar de toekomstig van onze wereld. En zeker naar de toekomstig van verdovingsmiddel winkelier.

    So I bought 'good' Marijuana for them and they even smoked it at my home. I think this was a good way to handle this, I've been in the tredmill of drugs, as well the nasty drugs as the good, old Marijuana. Well, I've learned my lesson the hard way. Don't want this to happen to one of the young boy's who visits my house and shall do everything I can to keep them off the nasty goods.

    Vieren opwaarts naar de zoet werkzaamheden. Wanneer u vieren zij verdoofd steeds , ziedaar zal zitten niet nood voor zij voor vinden van iets verder... zoals te leven bijvoorbeeld.

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  13. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    Dear [Q]...

    *Heb je got mijn votum wanneer u wel eens uitmaken voor stormloop voor naar de " ministerie van Jongeren Programma ". Op verschijnen u zitten zeerst gerechtigd voor voorsprong onze jongeren te zulks millennium en zeker naar de toekomstig van onze wereld. En zeker naar de toekomstig van verdovingsmiddel winkelier.*

    And now in plain Dutch please. I can make no sense of what you are writing here. Can you explain in plain Dutch what you mean here?

    *Vieren opwaarts naar de zoet werkzaamheden. Wanneer u vieren zij verdoofd steeds , ziedaar zal zitten niet nood voor zij voor vinden van iets verder... zoals te leven bijvoorbeeld.*

    The same goes for this part. I am real sorry [Q], I don't understand a word of it. Or are you trying to talk South-African here? Than again, I can read that language and what you write down here is a complete mistery to me. Thank you for listening.

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    Esp, you are right. Alcohol and tobacco are no good. I am sorry to say that I can't give up on a shaggie or cigarette so once in a while. A nasty habit, remaining from my 'bad' past...

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  14. esp Registered Senior Member

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    Please please...can we speak in common so everyone can understand?

    The Brixton Experiment

    Brixton, London. The police's powers of arrest for possession were withdrawn. On the spot cautions were the maximum punishment.

    At the conclusion of the experiment, this small regional police force reported that by operationg under the experimental regulations, they had the equivalent of TWO extra officers.
    Paperwork!
     
  15. justagirl Registered Senior Member

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    *shrugs* I read this thread with disbelieve..OMG...I thought everybody used pot for pain, depression, upset tummies, prayer, meditation, and of course fun smiles..... Tomatoes with ThC would entice me to have "more" BLT's
     
  16. scilosopher Registered Senior Member

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    435
    and I thought people used it to make the current crap on tv actually watchable ... maybe that just falls under pain relief.
     
  17. justagirl Registered Senior Member

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    LOL TV is a brainless and thoughtless form of entertainment encouraged by Hollywood to inspire us all to be non thinkers...
     
  18. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    Imagine what Hollywood could accomplish if they, the 'great film and TV makers, should smoke some Pleasure Herb before making their BS...

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  19. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    In reality when making Lord of the Rings actors smoke weed(statists, small actors) Those who were @ the Bilbo's birthday and especially in tht Pub. They acknowledged it. Director was furious

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    I think they acted quite good

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  20. scilosopher Registered Senior Member

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    I just enjoy trying to figure out ideas motivate popular tv and why. It might be a hopeless venture. Thank god for the writers who do use the mind boggling herb, like those of the simpsons ...
     
  21. Edufer Tired warrior Registered Senior Member

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    791
    Is marijuana harmless?

    Banshee is for smoking marijuana, Avatar seems to be against it, at least for personal use. Both are on opposite sides of the subject, but both make the mistake of saying <i>"it is a Natural drug"</i> .. or <i>"Marihuana have no nasty side effects"</i>, believing it is <b>a harmless herb</b>. The marihuana debate has been going on for many years, and will never end, as long as there is somebody who likes the pleasure of getting "high". If he chooses to do it, go ahead, but don't propagandize it because <b>many innocent people</b> would belive it and will suffer the consequences. In a next post I will go into the subject of the "natural drugs" myth.

    <b>Tetra hydro cannabinol</b> (THC) is a poison for your inmune system, you like it or not, the same as other "natural drugs" as cocaine, heroin, opium, etc. Natural drugs are as nasty and dangerous as synthetic ones, and sometimes worse. Of course, always depending on the dose. I don't know if one joint a day is harmfull or harmless --there is the issue of drug buildup in your organism, speed and capability of the chemical to be "washed" from the organism, etc. My contribution to this interchange of opinions will be just a few things of what scientists have discovered about marijuana (MJ).

    A research team at the Argonne National Laboratory, headed by Dr. Eliezer Huberman (Huberman, E., <i>"Marijuana increases disease risk by inhibiting white blood cells"</i>, Committees of Correspondence: Drug Awareness Information Newsletter, April 1989) discovered that THC, and a number of related chemicals called <b>cannabinoids</b>, arrest the development of at least one group of white blood cells. These white blood cells, known as <b>monocytes</b>,.are a key part of the body's immune defense system. When these cells fail to mature properly they cannot perform their necesary disease-fightning functions. The technical name for this condition is known as <i>maturation arrest</i>, which literally means a failure to grow up and function normally.

    The experiments used immature monocytes derived from human leukemia cells to study the effect of various cannabinoids on cell maturation. They used used leukemia cells because they represent a fairly uniform population of immature cells of a single type. In contrast, cells from normal human bone marrow represent an entire spectrum from primitive, undifferentiated forms, to fully mature functional cells, making them useless for studying cell maturation.

    The three compunds evaluated were THC (the psychoactive ingedient in MJ), <b>cannabinol</b> (CBN), and <b>cannabidiol</b> (CBD), two other components of MJ that resembles THC. After innoculation with one of the three cannabinoids the cells were cultured for one to six days and then examined. Three were the physical characteristic that marked the cells as "developmentally arrested": First, their size and shape were that of <i><b>promonocytes</b></i> an immature, non-functional cell. Second, the cannabinoid-treated cells did not attach to glass as mature cells would do. Third, the treated cells continued to divide, unlike mature monocytes.

    On the other hand, the treated cells did show biochemical and immunological evidence of maturation from more primitive forms. Thus, although THC appeared to initially stimulate development of leukemic cells, this development was subsenquently arrested before the cells became fully mature and functional. This, again, is the phenomenon known as <i>maturation arrest</i>

    Furthermore, these changes occurred at concentrations of THC that have been found in the blood plasma <b>of human who have smoked marijuana joints</b>. There are two major consequences of maturation arrest of white blood cells. The first, and most obvius, is that such arrested cells are <b>nonfunctional and therefore ineffective</b> in helping the body to fight a disease. In the case of monocytes, depressed function can cause a numbre of or problems. In the bloodstream, mature monocytes ingest foreign organisms and present them to the T and B lymphocytes for further processing and antibody production. In addition, monocytes secrets a number of chemicals called <i><b>lympokines, which activate other immune cells. </b></i> (Wouldn't this be one of the reasons that keeps the drug addicts at the top of the list of "risk groups" in AIDS?).

    The second consequence of "maturation arrest" relates to the fact that the arrested cells still possess the capacity to divide. When the body responds to an infection, for example, a number of substances are produced that stimulates the proliferation of different white blood cells from their primitive precursor cells in the bone marrow. If there is a lack of functional white blood cells because of maturation arrest, the body, sensing the lack of mature cells will continue to stimulate the bone marrow to produce more cells. As a result, there will be a buildup of large number of immature white blood cells in the circulation. If the maturation arrest is severe enough, <b>this defines the condition of leukemia;</b> that is, an excess of immature white blood cells in the circulating system.

    These findings (made about 1988), along with studies that indicate that THC causes disturbances in both T and B lymphocytes, as well as reduced resistance to cancer growth and infections by viruses and bacteria, certainly call for precaution when it comes to legalize or advice people to smoke MJ "because it is harmless". <b>It is not. </b> See my next post:
     
  22. Edufer Tired warrior Registered Senior Member

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    791
    Scientific references on MJ

    This link will lead you to:
    <b><A HREF="http://members.optusnet.com.au/~apfdfy/Suicide.html"> "Suicide / Schizophrenia - Consequences of Acute and Chronic Cannabis Use 1996"</A></b>, by Professor Pierre Baume, Director, Australian Institute for Suicide Research Prevention, Belmont Private Hospital. Here are some excerpts from the long, well referenced article:

    <font color="blue">"Two statements by Christie and Chesher has compelled us to update our paper "Suicide/ schizophrenia: consequences of acute and chronic cannabis use" (Baker, 1988) presented to a number of committees in 1988, 1989 and 1990 with eighty-six references being cited and in the words of Dr J. McGrath, Director of Postgraduate Studies, Queensland Department of Health, "I agree with the main thrust of the paper, that cannabis can worsen schizophrenia." (Letter from Dr J. McGrath..., 1989).

    "This is an illness with a very high suicide rate (10%) and because of this every effort should be taken to keep people compliant with treatment. Abstinence from illicit drugs such as marijuana is crucial in maintaining people with the illness in remission." ...

    "Also, a statement by M. Bolton, Director of the Queensland Department of Health, "I certainly agree that the cannabis group of drugs have potentially serious and wide-ranging side effects and that there is no room for complacency by the community in this area.". (Letter from M. Bolton..., 1989)"

    "Marijuana has been described by schizophrenic patients as both anxiolytic and activating, alcohol as relaxing. These powerful drugs, combining in the young, undeveloped body, could very well have disastrous consequences in later life."

    "CANNABINOIDS BEING FAT SOLUBLE, THUS ALLOWING THC MOLECULES TO BE ABSORBED BY LIPIDS IN THE CELL MEMBRANE OF THE BRAIN WHICH CAN CAUSE MEMORY LOSS."

    "The effects of cannabis on memory has been well documented (Deahl, 1991, p. 249) and the conclusion reached is that persistently heavy marijuana use induces significant and surprisingly long-lasting deficits of short-term memory (Schwartz, 1990; Nahas, 1991, pp. 16-17)."

    "One may presume that individuals with learning disabilities who struggle to concentrate and to learn and remember important information in high school and college might be even more susceptible to marijuana-induced short-term memory deficits." (Schwartz, 1990)

    <font size="5" color="red"><b> We must remember that it is impossible to learn without memory.</b></font>

    "Higher doses of 9-THC can induce frank hallucinations, delusions, and paranoid feelings. Thinking becomes confused and disorganized; depersonalisation and altered time sense are accentuated. Anxiety reaching panic proportion may replace euphoria, often as a result of feeling that the drug-induced state will never end... Use of marihuana can also cause an acute exacerbation of symptomatology in stabilized schizophrenics, and is an independent risk factor for the development of schizophrenia." (Extract from Goodman & Gilman, 1991, pp. 2-3)"

    "Also, <i>"Smoking marijuana may impair the body's immune system by preventing complete development of certain white blood cells. This may cause the immune system to function less effectively, making marijuana users more susceptible to disease."</i> (Huberman, 1989, p. 1). Eliezer Huberman is director of Argonne National Laboratory's division of biological and medical research."

    "THC is almost 100 per cent protein bound. It is highly lipid soluble and plasma levels decline rapidly after inhalation followed by a slow elimination phase." (Levy, 1990, p. 644) We know 9-THC crosses the placenta and also "In heavy users breast milk analysis of 9-THC [reveals] an eightfold accumulation compared with maternal plasma. The nursing infant can absorb 9-THC from mother's milk." (p. 645).

    "Using the Brazelton Neonatal Behavioral Assessment Scale, smoking cannabinoids during pregnancy correlated with a decrease in the likelihood of the offspring to respond to light directed at their eyes (46% did not respond ... in contrast to 16% of babies born to matched non-users)... Marked tremor, mainly around day 9 of life, and startle reflex are other characteristic features described in newborns of heavy cannabinoid users." (p. 646)

    "If we only compare <b><u>marijuana with tobacco smoking</u></b>, the <i>"...total burden of tar to the lungs and absorption of carbon monoxide ... <b>are four times greater when smoking marijuana.</b>" (Wu, 1988, pp. 30-31)."

    "The property of cannabis to induce long-lasting mental disturbances in Western man now epidemiologically documented, would confirm older anecdotal reports from mediaeval Islam (1396), India (1878-1972), Egypt (1843-1925), Brazil (1955), Bahamas (1970) and Jamaica (1976). Cannabis-induced psychosis would provide evidence that the repetitive disturbance of brain neuro-transmission carries the most serious risk of impairing lastingly the basic biochemical neural mechanisms which control coherent behaviour."</i> (pp. [11-12])</font>

    So it is not only bad for your immune system, but it plays havoc in the brain. <b>Harmless?</b> Just because it does not contain synthetic additives?. If you want to keep smoking MJ, it is a risk you have chosen for yourself. <b>But don't tell other people that MJ is "harmless".</b>
     
  23. scilosopher Registered Senior Member

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    Wow those were some big posts Edufer. Everything has it's troubles in excess. What are the stats on alcohol? How about ridalin? prozac?
     

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