A Perfect World?

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Bowser, Jun 19, 2019.

  1. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Why look my direction? Whoops, another question. You can buy my upcoming book on Amazon. For $9.99 you can have the answer.
     
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  3. sweetpea Valued Senior Member

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    Never getting a straight answer from Bowser has resulted in my way of 'talking' to him. That's who I'm talking to here. We certainly don't use Oxford debating rules on this forum. It's a consequence of the modding here.
    What I say is there to be corrected if it's wrong.
    Again, let them answer and correct. Because Bowser won't answer straightly, I give him a chance to big his ego by correcting my ''naivety'' on the subject.
    Why say it like that Dave? Do you find you never get a straight answer from Bowser too?
    Ditto my reply to the last quote above.
    Perhaps a new convert could answer our questions, apparently it seems their number has increased by one:
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
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  5. sweetpea Valued Senior Member

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    No answers , just the preaching.
     
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Ah. OK. I thought this was a more general purpose argument on your part.


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  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Because, at first I thought you had the courage of your beliefs to defend them.

    But it is becoming apparent that you are consistent with everyone else (including me) when it comes to beliefs. And that's OK.

    Spiritual and/or "existence" beliefs are deeply personal and subjective; they should not be brought out in a discussion where they would need to be defended. They certainly should not be used to convince anyone else of their truth - since they are indefensible.
     
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  9. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    I've given you and Dave every answer you need. It's reached a point that I'm going to start charging you for repeating myself.

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    I don't feel as though I'm on the defensive.
     
  10. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    What we need is not your call; it's ours. And, as has been pointed out, questions that are responded to with more questions are not answers.

    When you state your beliefs as more than your beliefs, then you open them up for challenge. If you don't address the challenges then you're not defending yourself. When you make statements to others about your beliefs without defending them, that's preaching.
     
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  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    1] It's not your call what we need; it's ours.
    2] And responding to questions with more questions is not answers.

    Finally:
    3] If your beliefs are in the form of questions, then we have answers. The answer to all of them is 'no'. That was simple.

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    I didn't say "on the defensive"; I said "defend". In a discussion, assertions must be defended.

    If you put your beliefs out here as if they apply to more than you (i.e. assertions), then they are game for challenge. If you don't defend them, but simply restate them as if they apply to more than you, that's preaching.
     
  12. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Preaching

    the delivery of a sermon or religious address to an assembled group of people, typically in church.
    "large numbers of people would come to hear his preaching"
    the giving of moral advice in a pompously self-righteous way.
    "your preaching won't make me change my mind"

    Is Sciforums a church? Am I giving moral advise in a pompously self-righteous way? Quite honestly, I'm simply stating facts as I see them. I do not impose any penalty on you for rejecting those facts.
     
  13. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, they are.
     
  14. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    No, you're stating your personal beliefs, not facts.

    As the saying goes: "You're entitled to your own opinions; You're not entitled to your own facts."


    But the issue of preaching comes when you don't engage.

    You're making assertions.
    Since it's a discussion forum, others are allowed to challenge them.
    Instead of defending your assertions with answers to questions, you posit more questions - implying further assertions.
    That's not really discussion.

    Not to mention the fact that not providing answers is a tell tale that you don't have answers.


    Not meaning to seem shirty about this; you're pretty gentle with your beliefs, comparatively. Just pointing out the issue for clarity.
     
  15. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    I don't feel you're being shirty. I have approached this subject many times, from many angles. Maybe words have limitations. If I told you that I can look at a tree and see myself, it wouldn't make much sense to you unless you, too, could see yourself in a tree. I suppose it doesn't really matter since everything will be alright, whether you understand or not. Simply enjoy being human.
     
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    No, yeah. I get you there.
     
  17. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Have you ever seen a happy tree, Dave?
     
  18. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I am able to philosophize and engage in whimsical behavior, yes.

    But the reason I come to science fora is because I'm more interested in nature as it exists without our interpretation.
     
  19. mmatt9876 Registered Senior Member

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    I wonder if it is possible for human beings to observe nature as it exists without interpreting what they observe and coming up with beliefs and opinions about what the have observed? Are we ever completely rational?
     
  20. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Well, that is the goal scientists strive for.

    The difference between a layperson's 'ideas and opinions' and a science-minded person's 'hypotheses and theories' is in
    1] whether the hypothesis is tested after being formed, looking for evidence of confirmation or falsification, and
    2] whether it is open to modification if the evidence points in a different direction.

    It's not irrational to form a working hypothesis (or even just a belief); it only becomes irrational if one forms a conclusion it in an absence of evidence - or worse the presence of falsifying evidence.
     

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