A Non-Black Ghetto

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by alexb123, Jul 22, 2013.

  1. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    As I'm sure we all know Detroit has declared itself bankrupt. It appears they have a huge crime problem with one of the highest murder rates in the USA. The troubled area appears to be the Ghetto which has a large black population. There are many other examples across America of black areas becoming ghetto's.

    Are there any other modern examples of Western cities creating Ghetto's that don't have a predominantly black population?
     
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  3. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Taken from wikipedia, relating to ghettos (I put in italics):

    There are ethnic ghetto areas that include the Lower East Side in Manhattan, New York, which later became notable as predominantly Jewish, and East Harlem, which became home to a large Puerto Rican community in the 1950s. Little Italys across the country were predominantly Italian ghettos. Many Polish immigrants moved to sections like Pilsen of Chicago and Polish Hill of Pittsburgh and Brighton Beach is the home of mostly Russian and Ukrainian immigrants.

    (Curious, as to why you bring up the crime rate in your opening post?)

    I learned today, by researching your topic here, that the term 'ghetto' originated in Venice. I didn't know that.

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  5. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Warsaw, Poland.
     
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  7. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    And for more than three centuries it was used exclusively to identify Jewish communities. Other ethnic groups have had the term applied to them, especially outside the USA. But today in the USA, where expression of antisemitism is rare and almost exclusively verbal, a ghetto is almost invariably an Afro-American neighborhood. I remember that meaning already being stabilized in the mid-1970s, for example on "The Jeffersons" sitcom. I do not recall it being in common usage at the time of the Watts Riots ten years earlier. That would put its origin in the range of a few years before and after 1970.

    There are several plausible etymologies in addition to the Venetian one you cited. However, they all originated in what is now Italy and are from the various languages or dialects which merged into modern standard Italian late in the 19th century.

    He claims that the murder rate in Detroit is highest in the Afro-American "ghetto." If this is true it is hardly surprising. In most American cities the poorest areas are usually the Afro-American neighborhoods. Despite a century and a half of progress, starting with the Emancipation Proclamation, progressing through the Civil Rights Act, and continuing to the election of the first Afro-American President, no one could say with a straight face that racism in this country is over. Victims of racism almost always end up at the bottom of the economic ladder. Poverty invariably breeds crime, including murder.

    In the Southwest during and after WWII, the Latinos were blamed for crime. A couple of generations before that, in the Northeast it was the Italian immigrants. A generation earlier it was the Irish.

    Europe's Jews were an anomaly. The European Christians misread a passage in the Bible to mean that any lending of money for interest constituted the sin of usury, so they made the Jews their bankers. Out of necessity they saved up most of their antisemitism and let it all out in one celebration of hatred which we now call the Holocaust.
     
  8. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks for the replies. To progress the post, I can to a degree understand that poverty breeds crime. But what I don't understand is why a population turns on its own people. The stats for black on black crimes could in another context be seen as a civil war. What causes this?

    Also, here in the UK we have had many town and villages that have lost their traditional industry but we don't see anything comparable to ghetto being created.
     
  9. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    yes, i'm pretty well versed when it comes to jewish history. perhaps, from having so many friends who were jewish growing up in a small town in NJ.
    thank you for this information, fraggle. as always, you are my virtual professor.

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    very interesting tidbit i learned here today. my dad was born in italy, just a neat fact to know.

    I visited the holocaust museum last summer in st pete, florida. of all the places for such a museum to be, i was BLOWN AWAY by the beauty, and three floors of what seemed to be endless information on the holocaust. it rivals any museum up north, that i have visited. i highly recommend anyone who lives in florida or is planning a trip, to visit this museum.

    going with that, the reason i wondered about alex mentioning the crime rate, is because it wouldn't seem that this was an 'indicator' of 'a' ghetto back during wwii, let's say for example. i looked the term up to get a literal definition a moment ago, and websters is dubbing it everything we say it is, but adding also the word, slum. not all ghettos are slums.

    often today, when ppl refer to ghettos, they are using it in a derogatory way.

    'he's so ghetto,' etc...are the common slang phrases we may here today.

    to me, that is not what the original term meant. or was to ever mean.

    what do u all think?

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  10. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Bullshit, I just saw a documentary about the famous UK photojournalist Don McCullin, who got his start photographing gangs in the poor neighborhood of Finsbury Park in North London.
     
  11. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    Yes indeed there are gangs in London but they are very localised. Maybe some of the housing estate could be seen as mini ghetto's but not entire areas. And again the gang members are black and they are killing each other. We have a police unit called Trident setup especially to tackle black on black crime.

    My UK example was regarding places that had lost their industry like Sheffield and the many coal mines.
     
  12. arauca Banned Banned

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    Lets talk about present since Detroit, Oakland, Gary Indiana . Different ethnic groups make their own Ghetto, but the destructive ethnic group usually is the black group., why ????.


    I see in the Chicago area there are several Hispanic, Chines , Arabs, Polish, Lithuanian, ethnic so called ghetto , Why is it that in the so called Afro american have to be disruptive and decaying ?
    I wonder for how long is that going to go on ?
    Is it that we are trying to give them all what thy want , Now they even have a president of their own color , If you talk about freedom lets take an example Haiti independent since 1780
     
  13. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    I'm a bit confused... What about Haiti?
     
  14. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    alex, that's why i (personally) thought you shouldn't have mentioned the crime rate. i don't think (personally) it had any bearing on your original question asking about other ethnicities and if they have formed ghettos.

    just my $.02

    just would be a shame to see the thread spiral down into a 'why are ghetto blacks in america like this' kind of diabtribe.
    (that was why i asked that above, fraggle)

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    but, none of my biz. carry on.
     
  15. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    The crime rate is the important issue as it seems that blacks exclusively form communities which are destined to then start killing each other. Hardship can unite or divide, but what causes such a massive divide that a death toll can be comparable to a war? What's worse the original hardship or the killings created from the hardship? Why makes things so much worse? And more importantly what is the solution?
     
  16. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Much of the crime in a ghetto is the second-order effect of simply having a high proportion of criminals in its population. They fight among themselves over territories, and just to steal their money or other loot. Furthermore there's always a new generation of tough young thugs coming up through the ranks with more testosterone than experience. They get into fights and kill each other over distrust. My parents lived in Chicago during Prohibition and the Depression, and they saw exactly the same things going on in the Italian community.

    I barely understand my own country so I'm hardly in a position to pick out its salient differences from yours. There are certainly ghettos in French cities, where all the African Muslims live.

    But I think you misunderstand Detroit. It has always had a large Afro-American ghetto. I don't know how old you are but doesn't everyone in the world remember the Afro-American phenomenon of Motown music? Detroit wasn't always Journey and Kid Rock. "Motor Town": Detroit was the center of the U.S. auto industry for three generations.

    Florida may have the highest concentration of Jewish people in the country: in its retirement homes. Some of those people are Holocaust survivors.

    I can't bear to go into places like that. Just seeing photos of the exhibits in the newspaper and reading interviews with survivors makes me cry. My grandfather's family were Jewish, although his parents converted to Christianity the moment they landed in America. I lost a lot of relatives in the Holocaust, although I didn't know their names. My mother's family were Bohemian and we lost a lot of them too. (We call them "Czech" today because it's so much easier to spell and pronounce.)

    Usage changes over the years. Every Mexican community used to be a barrio. But now that Mexico has transformed itself into a middle-class country and working-class Mexicans are moving home instead of coming here, the only Mexican immigrants are business owners driving across the border in their BMWs with all their papers in order (escaping the War on Drugs that the U.S. government managed to move to their country, killing tens of thousands of them, so our bankers can continue to get rich by laundering the cartels' money, while the public's screams for decriminalization of drugs are ignored). They're buying mansions in San Antonio and running their businesses from there by cellphone and internet. Nobody calls that San Antonio neighborhood a "ghetto."

    Similarly, upper-class Afro-American neighborhoods are not called "ghettos."

    Language is not static. In English a knight is a noble. In German a knecht is a farmhand. Both descended from the same word in Old High German.

    Do you remember when "bad" meant good?

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  17. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    Frag do you think your Jewish heritage is partly the reason for your genius? The list of incredibly intelligent Jew's is staggering for such a small population and their IQ is known to be the highest of any demographic?
     
  18. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    alexb123, the story behind black ghettos is the story of racism and the struggle for civil rights that has been going on for the last 400 years. Unless you think all that is irrelevant.
     
  19. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    No of course its relevant. But why turn on each other, thats the question.
     
  20. Anew Life isn't a question. Banned

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    I think if the government created more jobs, there would be fewer sustenance concerns fears and crimes.
     
  21. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Why does any human being turn on another human being?
     
  22. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    Its normally an extreme for people to turn on each other. Scarcity of vital resources or self-defence.
     
  23. arauca Banned Banned

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    I think you are just trying to talk politically right about civil rights . In Haiti they have civil right there is no discrimination and even before the earthquake it was a disaster . Liberia was purchased so they would have a new start , what happen ....... it went backward . I had hope that during Kennedy and post era it will change ,, hell it did not , perhaps it will take several hundred years more.
     

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