A new approach to mental illness

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Quantum Quack, Oct 27, 2003.

  1. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member


    Whilst I respect your interpretation I would like to ask you if you can find any where in Abnaks post that suggest or recommend any form of treatment for those persons afflicted with a mental disorder.

    The reason I used the extreme of a knife weilding maniac is that this maniac could also be acting on the belief that he is possessed by evil spirits.
    If he would shoot the man then why not the girl as both have potentials that are similar.

    In other words I find the notion of shooting a sick person as an inappropriate form of treatment. Possibly it may be an appropriate defence to a threat but certainly not a treatment.

    Abnak has yet to confirm or deny whether he considers mental disorder a reality and one that can be in some cases treated or managed.

    The article I have published is only a discussion paper on a possible addition and in some ways alternative to currently used methods when treating what I would consider acute sensory disorder.

    It is in no way a final propostion.

    Unfortunately I have fallen for Abnak's "baiting", his selective reasoning and this I appologise for.

    If you feel that my discussion paper is of no use and of no value then say so.

    If you feel mental disorder is a myth then say so.

    If you feel I am wasting my time then say so.

    You have stated that I have acted with deliberate intent to lie and act dishonesty

    I can ask where have I lied. Show me an example of a lie?
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  3. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    6 or so days a go we had here on the news that a man was charged with the murder of his parents, whose corpses had been found after at least 12 months of decomposition.

    The man had sealed the house with plastic to stop the stink from escaping.

    I am not sure but the man had continued to live in the house with his rotting parents for those 12 months.

    The police have stated that the man was a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic.

    When society is faced with such a sad situation what should it do?

    Execute a very sick man for murder or isolate and treat?

    Most people will say that because schizophrenia is virtually incurable that execution may be the solution. But I would argue that this is no solution.

    BUt until the reality of mental disorder is understood this situation is going to go on being repeated infinitum.

    If the man had received adequate therapy and treatment his parents would probably be alive today and we would not be faced with this question of "What to do about the murders"

    And sticking our heads in the sand as Abnak seems to be inclined to do is only going to perpetuate a very sad state of affairs.
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  5. Abnak Registered Senior Member

    "If he would shoot the man then why not the girl as both have potentials that are similar."-Quack

    I prefaced my remark about your knife wielding lunatic with "if this person was an immediate threat to me or my family". The girl on the other hand has a belief , that was reinforced by a doctor . This was then used to label her as mentally ill .

    Once again you conjure up and extend . Your use of the word "potential" is right out of a national socialists hand book , for governments and their lackeys seek to control all ( real and imagined ) who might impede them .

    All men have the "potential" to use there penises to commit rape . All gun owners , people with bows and arrows , those with scissors or even those that have beliefs that may or may not be popular ...could injure others , yet personal responsibility , truely caring about others and the desire to do the right thing is adhered to by 99.99999 % .

    Last edited: Jun 2, 2004
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  7. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Abnak....it is not me that this article is about...it is about how the mental health profession may better serve it's clients.

    It doesn't matter one iota what you think of me.
  8. Abnak Registered Senior Member

    "...how (can) the mental health profession may better serve it's clients." - Quack

    By initiating a method where supposed mental illness can be demonstrated by scientific means . Right now it is wholly arbitrary and unprovable . The DSM is manufactured gimcrackery .


    "DSM IV is the fabrication upon which psychiatry seeks acceptance by medicine in general. Insiders know it is more a political than scientific document. To its credit it says so, although its brief apologia is rarely noted. DSM IV has become a bible and a money making best seller - its major failings notwithstanding. It confines and defines practice, some take it seriously, others more realistically. It is the way to get paid.

    Diagnostic reliability is easy to attain for research projects. The issue is what do the categories tell us? Do they in fact accurately represent the person with a problem? They don't, and can't, because there are no external validating criteria for psychiatric diagnoses. There is neither a blood test nor specific anatomic lesions for any major psychiatric disorder. So, where are we? APA as an organization has implicitly (sometimes explicitly as well) bought into a theoretical hoax. " -
    Loren R. Mosher M. D.
  9. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    OK, Abnak you have stated your case.

    Can you offer a better way to deal with the current problems as our lack of understanding requires?

    What system would you suggest?

    "The problem exist now but our scientific knowledge exists in the future some time"
  10. Abnak Registered Senior Member

    " Can you offer a better way to deal with the current problems as our lack of understanding requires? " - Quack

    I am not sure what current problems you are refering to . Alot of what is labled as mental illness is actually just a response to stress . Yes, it can be extreme and illogical responses , especially when aggravated by drugs , but this can be very normal . Some "disorders" are made out of thin air , purely to generate profit . What the present "system" seems intent on accomplishing , is to entrap individuals and produce life long drug dependent consumers .

    "What system would you suggest?"

    Considerations about environment should be number one . A quiet and calm place , with trusted , caring and enthusiastic people , far surpasses mind games ( yours included ) and brain damaging neuroleptics .
  11. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Abnak, Thank you for that.

    You have stated quite clearly what I have been thinking about your position for some time.

    I have nothing further to say about your post.......as I think it says it all
  12. Abnak Registered Senior Member

    What is your opinion about the University of Pennsylvania participating in covert research ?

    "Assuming that this ( covert research) is occuring I would be absolutely horrified and disgusted by any covert methods."

    (This) is totally reprehensible
    - Quantum Quack

    Add it all up :

    Criminal trespass
    Felonious Harassment +

    Self defence and the desire to protect ones family is not irrational .
  13. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    How does the law stand there regards covert surveillance? Surely if proof was evidenced there would be some privacy law, in the least, that could be joined in litigation. Certainly civil action would be possible..

    Any way I am unconvinced about what the issue you raise has to do with the thread topic...
  14. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    It is if the threat is not a real threat and only premised in paranoia.....
  15. Abnak Registered Senior Member

    "Surely if proof was evidenced there would be some privacy law, in the least, that could be joined in litigation. Certainly civil action would be possible."

    Agreed , This is my intention .

    The threat is real and has been going on for years . Assault would be the proper term . Watching men , women and children in the privacy of their own home , subjecting them to a range of molestation , all the while , claiming medical necessity . The University of Pennsylvania crosses the line into perversion , that only full accountability can rectify .
  16. Abnak: Registered Member

    A follow up regarding Penns covert mind games of a young woman in her home using hidden cameras ...

    The woman had a complete emotional breakdown and is now hospitalized .

    How may others have been subjected to these kind of deliberate actions - Calculated psychological manipulation intended to intimidate and confuse ?

    One of those responsible is -
    Dr. Judith Rodin
  17. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

    Intead of contemplating a schizophrenic perhaps you should relate to one. The paranoia you suggest usually comes across as this "I walked into my kitchen and two men walked through the wall. They are CIA and had knives. I fought them and they disappeard. The two pigeons perched on the roof had a special message for me from the secret service." They want to kill me but I don't know why? I am special."

    Clinical Schizophrenics are vulnerable because they feel FEAR. Fear from NOT knowing the difference between reality and their disorder. Put away your Beautiful Mind! Now that is fiction. Most Schizo's live lives of alienation and would love access towards the bridge of communion with reality. The problem is biochemical.
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2005
  18. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    I think in general you could be quite right in what you say, however what therapies would you offer to deal with this fear?
    Do you consider that just because you feel it is a biochemical problem that the only solution is biochemical?

    I have interviewed hundreds of sufferers and the visual delusions you speak of are actually quite rare. There is no doubt that we are capable of imagining just about anything. Even I can easilly imagine men coming through walls and CIA conspiracies, very simple to do yes?

    So What causes the sufferer to fear his own imagination do you think?
    Could it be that because he can sense it in the visual realms, see it instead of it being a non-visual experience? Is it because he is stunned by the reality or realism of his own imagination? He can not easilly distinguish between his own imagination and that of reality. Does he fear getting lost in a world of both imaginary and so called real events. Fear of not controlling his own mind?

    How can we teach a sufferer to regain control of his reactions to what he senses?

    Since I published this article here over a year and a half ago, I have found in my discussions with schizophrenics and Bi polar sufferers that some benefit can be achieved in approaching the issue as Acute Sensory Disorder. Most persons have an ability to understand that if your senses are screwed then so are you.

    The only thing a diagnosis of schizophrenia achieves is fear and confusion because a diagnosis offeres nothing but medicinal support and no understanding and a future for most of isolation and contiuous torment. Call it Acute Sensory Disorder and immediately you have hope and a possible treatment beyond that of medications.

    At present here in Australia a diagnosed sufferer is given the meds and forgotten about, no other treatment being deemed to offer any hope.

    Well...it is in my experience that hope is possible if only atttudes to this condition change, and changing the diagnosis to a more understandable and less derogatory term is a first major step.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2005
  19. zyncod Registered Senior Member

    I would think that anyone who published an article relating to bipolar disorder would know that it's spelled "bipolar" - without capitals.
  20. zyncod Registered Senior Member

    Among other basic grammar.
  21. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Maybe you have not read my post very well. The only place I have published the article [discussion paper] is here at this sciforum and on my own web domain.
    Care to discuss?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

  22. duendy Registered Senior Member

    Dear Quantum Quack, when i first saw the thread title, and opened it i was expecting to read what i have usually read at many forums i have been with. I.e., the propaganderization of the mental illness myth. so it was a VERY pleasant surprise to see your articulate presence here, informing about such a pervasive myth as has been perpetrated by the pharm--psychiatric establishment, whose immorality seems to have no rock bottom as its propaganda and actions have now reached our children. stigmatizing them with phony mental illness labels of "ADHD" etc, threatening the parents, and drugging the children. A fuking OUTRAGE!

    About two weeks ago, a supposedly respected science documentary of the BBCs put out a program giving full whack to the propagand about ADHD. i was fuming, and contacted the makers. They sent back this post informing me it WAs a kosher disease and backing it up iwth this fairly long list of companies of middle class white males, such as the APA and so on. As though this was meant to impress me

    I contacted Fred Baughmann--who as you know is very much an activist about exposing all about the mental illness myth, ESPECIALLY ADHD .
    If you are interested and pm me with your private email i could foreward you about this

    I would also be really interested if you could direct me to your discussion you mention

    One debate i had all about this, with a chap who challenged my every other sentence went on--between me and him for 99posts! it can be read at www.entheogen.com in the archives in the spirituality and philosophy forum
    titled 'most Interesting'
    hehe, i'm not expecting you to read it, i'm just passing on info for any one who is.......
  23. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Dear Duendy,
    It is no doubt one of the greatest and most contentious issues of our times, that being mental health. As you quite rightly state it is obvious that there is great potential fro a conflict of interest amongst our leading pharma and medical professionals.

    These are modern times with modern conditions requiring modern behavious and modern learning. Whilst I welcom medicinal support I do not for a moment consider it to be the solution to any of the problems.
    I will qualify my statement by saying that in some circumstances immediate relief is warranted and in most cases this can be achieved by temprary solutions such as medication. The word Temporary is the operative word here though.

    I can't directly comment on ADHD except my gut tells me that modern children face modern challenges and need modern behavioural approaches. technology having by far outstripped our instinctive evolution.

    By working on the basis of Acute sensory disorder most patients can be helped to achieve the sensory balance required for so called normal functioning. But of course if a patient is tranquilised so serverely this therapy can not proceed. However together in balance they can offer a chance at a future for so many. [imho]

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