A little known critical battle in 732

Discussion in 'History' started by Dinosaur, Feb 27, 2017.

  1. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    The Arabs had taken over North Africa, Spain, & Turkey by 700 AD.

    They started to invade the rest of Europe in 732. Charlemagne's grandfather, Charles Martel had the only army in Europe capable of stopping them, which he did in 732 south of Tours, France. Only students of European history are aware of this battle.

    Martel was a description meaning hammer rather than a name. He was given that name because, he did not accept surrender when he had beaten an opposing army. He pursued the Arabs back into Spain, killing as many as he could before returning to France due to lack of supplies.

    His activity demoralized the Arabs who never again tried to invade Europe. A date in 1492 is commemorated in Spain because it is the date on which Grenada (last city held by Arabs) was returned to Spanish control.
     
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  3. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Does this mean you think Spain doesn't count as Europe?

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    The Arabs held onto a large part of Spain (Al Andalus) for several hundred years after this battle. It is true that after this battle Christendom progressively reconquered the Iberian peninsula, but it took them half a millennium.

    I think it is worth noting that Europe lost a lot when the Arab rulers were pushed out. Arab rule at that time was far more tolerant and encouraging of intellectual enquiry than the Christian regimes that replaced it.
     
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  5. mathman Valued Senior Member

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    Why do you think it is little known? Any student of history would be well aware of it.
     
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  7. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    This history needs to be reminded, to prevent from repeating the same mistakes.
     
  8. Bells Staff Member

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    Mod Note

    Can you cite the sources you pulled those two paragraphs from, timojin?

    Because I know you copied and pasted them from two different sources. Please link them. Failure to provide a source for what you quoted, will be deemed to be plagiarism and you will be moderated.

    One other thing, it is polite and expected that you inform readers that you are quoting other people, by either using quotation marks or using the quote feature provided on this site.

    :::Edit to add:::

    Links the two paragraphs that were plariarised from by timojin:

    Paragraph 1: http://www.islamicspain.tv/Andalusi-Society/Key-Figures.htm

    Paragraph 2: http://www.bosniafacts.info/early-history/40-conversion-to-islam-in-the-balkans
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
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  9. Bells Staff Member

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  10. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    Seems like he does this regularly... To be honest, I'm not totally convinced timojin knows what the phrases "cite the sources" and "plagiarism" actually are. Or is it all just an act?

    Out of curiosity, where did his post fit in the thread? What post number?
     
  11. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Well, it's equally important that we not cherry pick our way through history. If we only remember the parts that we like and forget the parts we don't like, we are just setting ourselves up for failure.
     
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  12. Bells Staff Member

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    Was the first one after the OP.
     
  13. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    From Mathman Post #3
    By student of history I assume you mean a person who took more than the typical courses in History taken by those who did not major in history or related subjects.

    I went to private schools from first grade through college, but did not major in history. I took courses in ancient history, European history, & American history. I was unaware of the Charles Martel battle with the Arabs in 732 & was unaware of the Arab control of Spain in the era a few centuries prior to & after that battle.

    I was an avid reader of Asimov SciFi & science essays. After graduating from college, I became aware of his historical essays & learned of the 732 battle & various other historical events not covered in courses taken by non-history majors.
     
  14. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Suppose it depends what one takes "little-known" to mean. As far as most Arts graduates are concerned, Schroedinger's equation would be "little-known". But any physical science graduate who did not know it would be considered pretty ignorant.

    In this case I expect the Battle of Tours is far better known in Europe than in the USA, though it will not be as well known among the populace as Waterloo, for instance.

    As a matter of fact, there was another battle that halted muslim expansion, at the other end of Europe, much later: the Battle of Vienna, 1683, fought against the Ottomans.

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  15. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Something I learned from the newspaper today is that two years ago, the government of Spain passed a law whereby descendents of the Jews who were expelled from Spain in the c.15th are now entitled to have a second, Spanish, passport, if they so desire.

    A rather fine gesture, I thought.
     
  16. DrKrettin Registered Senior Member

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    That was in the Spanish news a couple of years ago - what they didn't seem to address was how any of these descendants would be able to prove their entitlement.
     
  17. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    From ExChemist Post 2
    Sorry for the phrasing of my remarks. Of course I consider Spain & Portugal part of Europe.
     
  18. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    One wonders about the attitudes of the Basque(euskaldunak)
     
  19. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Why don't you as your mother Bells She just maliciously posted from other forum in order to ban me.
     
  20. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    They were high in the Pyrenean mountains. euskaldunak do you mean Euskadis ?
     

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