A few seconds after the big bang.....

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by djvisionconcepts, Sep 5, 2008.

  1. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

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    Oh hum! How original.

    No it doesn't. Expansion and inflation are just explanations which may or may not be true. If you see a cup on a table and five minutes later you see the same cup on the floor, you could with as much conviction say that all the evidence points to a demon picking it up and throwing it on the floor.

    Right.

    When matter first appeared, whether the universe was a third of a mile across or the size of our solar system, by all laws we know it should have become a black hole and stayed one.

    If you check your browser, it will have a search engine. (Waits for James R to be amazed at this discovery). Use it with text along the lines of : linked quasars galaxies different red shifts. I don't spoon feed people.

    If space allows nothing through it faster than light speed, why should it move faster itself? The idea it does is just a crazy idea thought up by people with nothing better to do with their time. You previously asked for proof but are willing to accept junk like this on some idiot's say so.

    Some claim it works at FTL speed.

    You do not need to be an expert on pigs, biology or aviation to know that pigs cannot fly. Dark Energy while it plugs one gap opens up many more. Perhaps the "scientists" got the idea from Peter Pan's pixie dust, which allowed kids to fly?

    Yes.

    Much of science is about getting research money. You ask for money to research a facet of the BB theory and you may get it. Ask for money for something which suggests that the BB may be wrong and you almost certainly will not get it. A bit Catch 22 where they want the proof before they hand over the money.

    Expansion is supposed to be 100 miles per second over a million light years yet there are tiny clusters a few million light years away from the main group but still held together in the main group. See image:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Group


    There is no proof for inflation. It is a belief, like the christian idea that God made the universe. He must have done it because how did it get there otherwise. Inflation is just a convenience which as someone pointed out in New Scientist, Hawking is currently trying to show it is more than an ad hoc idea.

    Question: If the entire universe is in the space of our solar system, is there any force known or even possible that could make it expand and not collapse into a black hole?
     
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  3. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

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    This would only work if there was a process of continuous creation. It is possible that a black hole might literally collapse if big enough*, spraying space with fundamental particles.

    *The current record holder is 18,000,000,000 solar masses discovered this year, so bigger than that.
     
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    kaneda:

    We're not really progressing here. You post about how you think that inflation is nonsense, etc. etc., but without ever backing up your claims with anything solid. And in reply, I could post how I accept that inflation is a reasonable provisional explanation for the universe we see today, but I admit that I'm not an expert cosmologist and I won't be taking the time to dig up the relevant evidence for you.

    So, with neither of us backing up our arguments with actual evidence or expertise, we've reached a stalemate. It seems pointless to me to simply keep re-iterating our personal beliefs at each other.

    If you come up with anything concrete that supports your argument, maybe I'll take a look. But I'm afraid your gut feelings don't cut the mustard for me.
     
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  7. Walter L. Wagner Cosmic Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

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    I did as Kaneda suggested, and googled on those terms. Lots of articles. Here are links to two:

    http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2004/arch/041001quasar-galaxy.htm

    http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/controversies/Arp_controversy.htm

    Hope I got those right. Interesting reading that is a challenge to high red-shift quasars as being at great distance.
     
  8. Walter L. Wagner Cosmic Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

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  9. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

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    There is no evidence for inflation. It is a convenient explanation to plug a gaping hole in the BB idea. To quote you :

    If you come up with anything concrete that supports your argument, maybe I'll take a look. But I'm afraid your gut feelings don't cut the mustard for me.
     
  10. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

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    Walter L Wagner. Nothing is beyond question. I feel sorry for people who just accept everything about science as though it were handed them by God himself, so infallibly true. They are so gullible. Some years back, New Scientist carried an article showing that scientists had found that electric current didn't flow through a wire exactly as it had been believed to.
     

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