A challenge to Atheists

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by garbonzo, Mar 12, 2011.

  1. garbonzo Registered Senior Member

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    Nothing.
     
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  3. garbonzo Registered Senior Member

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    hey guys, I'm on vacation now. we'll see if I got a letter back when I get home. Anyway, I wanna bring back this point:

    It also states to abstain from blood, and we all know how bad blood is.
     
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  5. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know - I kind of like black pudding.
     
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  7. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    And I'm perfectly happy having blood in my veins.
    I even fight the nurse when she wants to steal some with her horrible needle and syringe.
     
  8. garbonzo Registered Senior Member

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    Hmm?
     
  9. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Hi garbonzo,

    Don't listen to these guys too much, they will sway you away from the One God.
    That said, I had a couple questions I wanted to know too.

    Is God ALL Powerful? (Can He do anything??)
    Is God ALL Knowing? (He knows the future and everything that will happen and has happened?)

    Also, when was the Bible written? I'm having a hard time getting a date on it???

    Thanks,
    Michael
     
  10. garbonzo Registered Senior Member

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    Well, they make some valid points. It's illogical to follow something blindly, and I recommend you read through this thread and make some valid arguments if you have any with the points, like I'm doing...

    According to JWs, God is ALL Powerful, and he is ALL knowing, BUT he only choses to see into the future if it is needed for his plans. Think of it as a Hotel Manager. He has the keys to all the rooms in the hotel, but he chooses not to open them out of respect for his Guest's privacy. Although, if absolutely needed, he will open the door. Eg. If there were screams for help coming from the room, or the police need the key.

    The Bible was written from 1513 BCE to 98 CE by 40+ different writers. But, that is only what they tell us. I don't know if this can be proven...

    I don't know when / where it was compiled, though...




    I also found an interesting quote:


    Any argument to that, guys?

    Also, what can you say to the blood and germs mentioned before?
     
  11. Mr MacGillivray Banned Banned

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  12. garbonzo Registered Senior Member

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  13. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Yet an argument has been brought up.
    Your offhand dismissal doesn't invalidate them.
     
  14. garbonzo Registered Senior Member

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    No one has argued against anything. I can say the "I was first." regalement.

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    I was just saying my point is better than yours, because as it stands, it's subjective, while mine is not...
     
  15. Mr MacGillivray Banned Banned

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    Can be, but are not.

    Which contradiction's existence are you refuting from the link? All? Did you have time to research them all? The first one? the second one?
     
  16. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Wrong.
    Mr MacGillivray's post listed contradictions: an argument that your contention of "harmonious" is in error.

    Also wrong. You made a claim that has been shown to be untrue. Therefore that claim must have been subjective.
     
  17. garbonzo Registered Senior Member

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    I was only replying to Michael. I was not making that argument... I want to debate the quote and the blood / germs point.
     
  18. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    So why quote Mr MacGillivray's post?

    Then why state it that way?
     
  19. synthesizer-patel Sweep the leg Johnny! Valued Senior Member

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    scriptural predicions and prophecies tend to be vague, very much open to intrepretation, counted as prophecies only AFTER the event that that they supposedly predict has taken place, and most importantly, the followers of whatever religion it is that makes a particular prediction only ever count the hits and never count the misses.

    If you are looking for statistical significance you need to factor in both.

    if you have a book as large as the bibble, with as many vague (in terms of precise details of the event) predictions as it contains, then it would be astonishing if some didnt turn out to be true, especially if one is interpreting them in retrospect of the supposedly predicted event.
    Think for example about how many people found quatrains by Nostradamus that predicted the 9/11 attacks ....... but not until AFTER they happened - that isn't prediction, it's retrospective re-interpretation .

    The problem that people of a particular religion have when it comes to prophecies is that they have a huge blind-spot when it comes to seeing the difference between a prediction and a retrospective re-interpretation.
    But more importnatly than that they are blind when it comes to counting the misses as well as the hits. Think about all of the various sects who predicted that the year 2000 was going to be the end of the world - did all their followers jump ship when they woke up to a world that was still there on january the first 2001?

    Final point, has there been an increase in earthquakes? I don't know for sure, but I do know we've got a whole lot better at detecting, measuring, and recording them - how certain are you that that is not the answer? can you demonstrate it?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2011
  20. garbonzo Registered Senior Member

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    Your other points are valid.

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    Still:

     
  21. brokenpower Registered Senior Member

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    I believe Cris pointed to a fantastic paradox many years back, ever still fighting this debate.

    "If god is omnipotent, can he create a stone that he CANNOT carry?"

    Needless to say if god can create a stone that he cannot carry, by not being able to carry it, it negates the fact that he is God.

    And, if he cannot create it, by not being able to create the stone it also negates the fact that he is god.

    Also, the likely reply that god can "do both, he is God" is childish.
     
  22. synthesizer-patel Sweep the leg Johnny! Valued Senior Member

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    This is as much of a prediction as me saying; "somewhere, sometime, it will rain"

    Hindu scriptures contain similar guidance on hygene. These pre-date the bibble by around 4000 years - there's no reason to suspect therefore that this was some kind of special knowledge imparted by the sky daddy to his chosen people, unless perhaps he got Krishna to help him out.

    Do "we"? or is it more of a case that YOU just assume it because that's what it says in the bibble?
    there are a number of african tribes who regularly drink animal blood as a main staple of their diets - have done for thousands of years - with no ill effects.
    I'm a big fan of black pudding as well, didnt do me any harm except put hairs on my chest.
     
  23. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

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    Lol you can't convince these guys with an opening post like that, I could debunk all of this myself and im a believer myself.

    I have come to understand something and that is you cannot remove the seals on peoples hearts with words. Even if you were to get a direct prophecy from god "himself" that a lightning bolt was about to strike one of your atheist friends, you then pushed him out of the way and the bolt struck empty ground next to him, he would then say to you that was just a coincidence, or "you must be psychic but it still dont prove god to me".


    It is futile they havent earned faith so they wont be given it.

    peace.
     

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