95% of men have a sexual need for other men

Personally speaking: yes, I was naturally built to fill a heterosexual role. And no, it doesn't feel ridiculous, it feels internally consistent and intuitively right. Having sex with men would feel the exact opposite.

Your main error is this: just because some men with homosexual tendencies don't have the necessary courage to admit it to their peers (and I'd imagine it does take a lot of courage, given the pressures), you cannot assume that the same applies to all, or even most, males. Most of just aren't made that way.

This is neither a good nor a bad thing. It's just how things are.

 

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.....You can say it today after you have proved your a 'man' by proving that you can have sex with women, and are perfectly 'capable' of being repulsed by male eroticism.

Who made those rules? Why? If things were naturally so, why did you need them as social pressures on men?

 

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So you accept that there are pressures. Intense pressures.

 

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So you are naturally made to take forced sex with women you don't like by steeling yourself and then feeling good about it.

Funny, how everyone claims they are naturally made to fit into whatever the social masculinity roles are!

I have established that as a pressure to --- to pretend that we are naturally made to be 'real men' as defined by the society.

The very fact that you're saying this proves that you are still acting under that pressure. Even if it is to prove your 'superiority'.

 

Yes, there are pressures. But Buddha1, with the increasing acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle and the decreasing influence of the Church in most peoples everyday life, surely you must agree that there is far less pressure on men than you make out to be?

 

Do you accept that if a man accepts his same-sex needs he would be totally rejected from the male group.

Do you accept that the social pressures and norms make it impossible for a man to like men and be considered a man at the same time?

Do you accept that men --- let's not talk about the numbers yet --- do hide, disown, hate, suppress, fight, lie about their sexual need for men?

And do you accept that men --- to some extent all men --- exaggerate, brag, misrepresent, feel proud of and lie about their sexual interest in women?

 

Let's not jump at conclusions.

All I'm asking for is:

1. to accept that there is a problem. That things MAY NOT be quite the same as they seem to be in the lives of men.

2. to be open to a re-examination of male gender and sexuality afresh, without biases or pre-conceived notions. Which means not to blindly and stubbornly support a position and refusing the examine the other's contention and rejecting it summarily.

 

What I can tell you is that after about 5 years of intense heterosexualisation, the pressures on men have increased tremendously in my society.

It would be difficult for me to imagine that the pressures in the heterosexual west are going to be on the decline.

Afterall, no one would care in my traditional society if two men hold their hands in the market or sit on each other's laps or did other cosy things together. Noone would care if two men share a bed.

Can we say that about your society? I think you should reexamine your assertion that sexual bonds between men are better tolerated in your country. Or the pressures to be heterosexual are lesser for that matter.

In fact creating a separate group/ identity for men who acknowledge their same sex needs adds immensely to the pressures on masculine gendered men, making sure that most men keep absolutely mum about their same sex needs. No one wants to be thrown into the 'other' group. After all men in general also have a sexual need for women. And they hang on to even the slightest such need in order to keep their 'manhood'.

 

Are you willing to understand that the consequences of acknowledging same-sex needs are different from masculine gendered men and feminine gendered men.

That feminine gendered men never feel the same as the masculine gendered men. They are naturally geared to look for a separate social identity as a different gender/ sex. The heterosexual society gives them this opportunity in the form of a 'sexual identity' however misplaced it is.

Feminine gendered men take to it like fish does to water. But for masculine gendered men it is a disaster. They are not naturally made to be separated from other masculine gendered men on the basis that they like other men or do not like women. They go through a lot of struggle within themselves, and making the crossover from the 'straight' identity to the 'gay' identity is psychologically not easy. Because your society does not recognise gender as a natural or valid human trait, men fail to see how gender plays an important role in all this sexual politics.

In my society masculine gendered men are not considered 'gay' even if they have sex with men exclusively. Gender is the deciding factor in deciding a person's sex/ gender identity.

 

Do you Buddha have sex with men exclusively?

Oh and what society is this you keep speaking of, as I know of no such society that would deem a man who only has sex with other men as anything other than homosexual.

 

And just on what basis do you decide how many men are actually purely/ exclusively heterosexual, and how many are lying about their true sexual needs?

What is your basis for the assumption that most men are truly heterosexual and only a minority lie about their so-called 'orientation'?

Why not examine things with an open mind and then reach at a decision?

 

No. Why the hell would he? If he was originally a genuine member of that group then the attitude is likely to be a bit of good natured ribbing. I for one would likely ask, with a hesitant smile, "So, your wife. What's she doing now?"

No. What nonsense is this? If they are men, they are men. I don't really care too much whose anatomy they do things to with parts of their anatomy. I am much more interested in their views on science, politics, religion, or technical aspects of work if I know them through that setting.

I am quite certain that some do. Some also believe we are visited by aliens who abduct people and carry out bizarre experiments on them. I don't consider either attitude especially productive.

No. I think some men, especially adolescents and youth, make claims for their sexual conquests that have little relationship to the truth. This is seems to be more related to the fact that they aren't getting as much as they'd like, or as they think there friends are.

Bhudda1, guys want to get laid by women. Frequently. Maybe the same woman. Maybe different women. That is my personal experience and observation. It isn't because of the pressure of society, its because of the bloody testosterone. It is an instinctive drive governed by hormones. Live with it.

 

But it's so much more peaceful this way.

 

You will be in for a surprise then! the non-western, non-heterosexual world has very different concepts and values. Yours are not necessarily superior!

In the innumerable workshops that I conducted with young men in various parts of my country with the non-English speaking people, I raised the question of who is a 'homo'. Here is the unanimous answer --- well almost unanimous......I remember one incident where an English educated man talked about the dictionary meaning of 'homosexual'.....but as for the rest:

"Homo" refers to men who behave like women --- that is, it is a transgendered identity.

There is a soap opera character on our T.V. who is extremely feminine but chases only women. The men described him as 'homo'.

I specifically asked them if two masculine men, if they had sex exclusively with each other would be considered 'homosexual' --- and the unanimous response would be "no"!

It is hardly surprising and nothing new in my parts. Lots of modern English speaking people who worked on HIV prevention with men in my country were flabbergasted when they worked with "men who have sex with men" who just wouldn't call themselves homosexual. Most of them were married. Most people in my country are married and it has nothing to do with your sexuality. Marriage is a social duty which everyone must perform.

 

Who is talking about older men? The pressures are the harshest for adolescents and young unmarried men.

You are again closing your eyes to reality. Either this or you are indeed from out of this world. Let me put the quote here again:

"You didn't want head? What kind of man are you?"

"maybe they were both hermaphrodites but one considered itself male and the other female. I dunno, this is Norway we're talking about."

My dear Ophiolite! Are you so ignorant of the world of men? The social pressure on men is not to be men biologically. Biologically they are men and will remain so. The pressure is to be men socially. And socially you are accepted as a man only if you are heterosexual (in your society i.e.). If you don't prove you can have sex with women you will be a lower man. Some men do pretend to be 'asexual' and keep a low profile.

But if you are seen as a man who likes other men, then you are no more a man socially. You are a faggot! You are different gender, a different sex-identity, a third-sex. There is no comparison then between the 'men' and 'you'. You are not part of them. You are different. You even have a different biological make-up and a different set of brains --- much like women mind you. And so you're really, really despicable. That is the way you are psychologically removed from the male group. Then you go and seek out other faggots and make your own separate group, but not after going through a lot of hardships and personal struggle. And you will always be a 'third-sex'. Till now it was just a social thing. But now science is increasingly 'proving' that 'homosexuals' are indeed biologically a different sex.

The world does not run according to what you think and care about!

So how do you decide the numbers? On what basis do you assume that it is only some and not most? How do tell which ones are pretending to be heterosexual (meaning they are exclusively attracted to women), and which ones are what your stupid society calls 'bisexual' or 'homosexual'.

Why shouldn't I equate your blind belief in the 'minorityness' of such men to a belief in being abducted by aliens?

Again what is the basis for your assumption? And so you're saying that they lie not because they are under any pressure, but becuase........why?.......because they think they are getting lesser sex with women than their friends are? Why would they lie to cover it up unless they have some kind of pressure......unless there is some kind of competition to see who can prove that he can have sex with women? You obviously know very little about men. I have worked with men on these issues for years.

Our personal experiences and observations are quite limited. We only see what we are shown. To speak authoritatively on their basis is utterly foolish.

In any case I have never contested that men, many men to be more precise, like sex with women. That is how it is possible to divert sexual need for men to sexual need for women. But that doesn't make them heterosexual, because it doesn't rule out same-sex needs.

I think you have not understood me. It is again because of your stupid society's use of the words heterosexual and homosexual, and your insistence on using them. When I say people are not heterosexual, I don't mean that they don't like women seuxally. I mean that they also have a sexual need for men --- which I have reasons to believe is much stronger. The sexual need for women, in nature exists more as a secondary sexual drive which comes into play periodically in most men.

But yes, the pressures play an important role in making this secondary need into our primary, even exclusive one.

Is there any scientific evidence that testosterone and male hormones result in heterosexuality --- i.e. exclusive sexual attraction for women?

It would also mean that an exclusive sexual attraction for men would point to a lack of testosterone and male hormones? Is there a scientific evidence of that (I wouldn't be surprised though the way science distorts facts about human sexuality!).

That you should be saying such things quite amply illustrates that inspite of your assertion that you don't believe being a man is about sexual preference --- you are plain misleading us. You not only believe that being a man is about liking women, but you want to uphold that view at any cost.

 

Ophiolite, I am disappointed at your failure to accept things which are clearly there. If you keep closing your eyes and denying everything, then it only shows that you purposedly want to avoid the truth.

 

I have edited my previous reply to Ophiolite. Pl. read it again.

 

i can almost see you begging for homosexuality to be 'natural'

men have semen for one reason and one reason only
and that is to impregnat females not to lube some guys ass

 

You're a troll, aren't you!

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you didn't answer the questions Buddha

I'll ask again

1) DO YOU have sex exclusively with men?

2) What country do you live in?