# 9 whales vs a human... which one would you chose?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by chris4355, Apr 22, 2009.

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## 9 whales vs 1 human, which one will it be?

15 vote(s)
45.5%

12 vote(s)
36.4%

6 vote(s)
18.2%
1. ### Baron MaxRegistered Senior Member

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23,053
Why do you say that? When humans are literally destroying not only their own habitat, but the habitat of every other living creature on the planet ...and you call human a "higher and more valuable form of life"????

You have an odd idea of "higher and more valuable".

Baron Max

3. ### tim840Registered Senior Member

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1,653
well yeah we're obviously far from perfect. we are capable of doing terrible things, and we have. but we are also capable of doing great things. our capacity to think, to reason, to judge, to plan, to understand, to empathize, to communicate, etcera is far beyond that of any animal -- even chimps or dolphins.

5. ### Daturasurrender to nothingRegistered Senior Member

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161
The only "great things" humans have done is to better humanity. Humans help save animals from...other humans.

I'd choose the whales if I wouldn't be held responsible for the death of a human. Even then, who knows, I still may put my freedom on the line.

7. ### pjdude1219The biscuit has risenValued Senior Member

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16,051
actually there is a fair bit of research that shows this not to be the case.

8. ### Baron MaxRegistered Senior Member

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23,053
Yeah? So when do humans start actually doing any of those things? Or is it just all talk and no action?

Baron Max

9. ### cosmictravelerBe kind to yourself always.Valued Senior Member

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33,264
You wouldn't be here today if humans did nothing about anything. Take for example if the plague wasn't stopped everyone would have died in Europe but because humans did something they found an answer to the disease and wiped it out therefore giving your direct ancestors a life instead of their demise.

10. ### SavenRegistered Member

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209
If it were some old 90 year old crippled man, the whales.

11. ### cosmictravelerBe kind to yourself always.Valued Senior Member

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33,264
Why doesn't he allow for elections to be held if he is so popular as you think he is? Because he is afraid he will lose. Without Russias help he wouldn't have much to be so powerful, Russia has him by the balls and squeez him when they want to. He is such a puppet.

12. ### Captain KremmenAll aboard, me Hearties!Valued Senior Member

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12,738
Now, hide your head in embarrassment, for Kim Jong il was democratically elected in 2003. He had 99% of the vote and a 100% turn out.
Who in the West has a mandate like that?

Granted, he was the only candidate, but that is probably just due to his popularity.

13. ### madanthonywayneMorning in AmericaRegistered Senior Member

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12,461
I agree completely. I certainly hope everyone is being facetious with all the votes for whale. That so many people value the life of a human below that of a few whales is disgusting.
Really? Tell me, which animals have an ability to think that rivals our own? Or are you speaking only for yourself?

Last edited: Apr 27, 2009
14. ### tim840Registered Senior Member

Messages:
1,653
There are only 4 animals that even have the mental capacity to recognize themselves in a mirror -- dolphins, elephants, apes, and magpies -- which is one indicator of how much more intelligent we are than animals. And no animals use language near as efficiently as humans do. there aren't even any that come close.

15. ### TiassaLet us not launch the boat ...Staff Member

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35,816
Gruff, contrary, and confused?

Max, in history, if you go back and look through the creation stories told by various cultures, you'll find that they're all really self-centered. Well, of a sort. See, the thing is that I have yet to find a creation story that reads, "In the beginning, God created Heaven and Earth for those people over there. Who the fuck are we? Doesn't really matter, does it?"

That is, the Hebrew creation story followed creation to the Hebrews; the Hopi creation story followed creation to the Hopi. It is not the case, for instance, that the Cherokee creation story follows creation to the Israelites. In each case, the people who tell the story are at the center of God's focus.

This actually follows an anthropological pattern.

In natural selection, the human factor is rather confusing insofar as I have known of a dog to die for the sake of a human, but that's a conditioned outcome. More generally, the focus of a species tends to be on itself. One might observe an old walrus separate itself from the pack in order to draw off predators, thus sacrificing itself while the rest of the group herds the young into the water, but it's not going to do that for anyone else's young.

The focus is on species.

The fact that humans are imperfect does not change the inherent presumption of priority for one's own species.

Has this never occurred to you before?

16. ### CutsieMarie89ZenRegistered Senior Member

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3,485
How do scientist know that? I'm actually quite interested in animal psychology.

edit: never mind I looked it up. Those tests are not the best science. By their method my dog would be self aware and my brother doesn't know he exists. At least once a week he doesn't recognize his own reflection, while my dog pays it no attention all though he hates other dogs so I assume he would bark and try to attack his reflection every time he saw it if he thought it was another dog.

Last edited: Apr 27, 2009
17. ### pjdude1219The biscuit has risenValued Senior Member

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16,051
Maybe those people have actually objectively looked at humanities worth.
their are several books on such things. There is in fact an entire book on animal ethics.
Your warning of me for insulting has lost a lot of its force with this. reported.

18. ### cosmictravelerBe kind to yourself always.Valued Senior Member

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33,264
Seems HE should be embarrassed to even hold elections with only one candidate for that isn't an election , it is a sham!

19. ### madanthonywayneMorning in AmericaRegistered Senior Member

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12,461
Might I refer you to Tiassa's post above?
Oh, and how many of them were written by animals?
You're really reaching on that one.

20. ### pjdude1219The biscuit has risenValued Senior Member

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yeah and.
none but not having a written language doesn't mean beings aren't intelligent. Their are still human societies that do not have written languages.
Not really. I caught the insult in the implication. You either thought I'd be too stupid to catch it( which is confusing to me. whats the point of throwing an insult at someone they won't get) or your trying to cover your ass for making the insult by playing stupid which is what I'm betting on. Of course there is the third possibility that you didn't know you were making an implied insult but frankly I don't think your stupid.

21. ### madanthonywayneMorning in AmericaRegistered Senior Member

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12,461
Why should you be insulted by my asking if you applied to yourself what you claim to apply to all of humanity?

Seriously, do you honestly think such an oblique, subtle "insult" framed as a question is the equivalent of calling someone the paragon of idiocy? Furthermore, if you really believed animals to be just as intelligent as humans, you wouldn't find my statement insulting at all, would you? So my "insult" was really a test of the honesty of your professed position.

22. ### pjdude1219The biscuit has risenValued Senior Member

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16,051
eh I was wrong it was the third. The insult lay in not my beliefs but in yours.

well considering my belief that accurate descriptions aren't insults I'd have to say its worse.
as I said the insult in the question lay in your beliefs. Mostly resting on the unstated premise of yours that for animals and people to be equivalent in intellect would require the person to be stupid.

23. ### iliRegistered Member

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66
Depends which one is offering the higher reward (\$).