61% Believe in Evolution

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by sandy, Jan 2, 2008.

  1. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    Virtually all the transitional forms still exist today. The most dramatic one was organic chemistry to cells. From that it's all downhill to us. Each step was very small.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. redwards I doubt it Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    290
    Johnny went away

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,089
    Oh look, here's a "missing link":

    http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/news/060501_tiktaalik

    In fact they used evolutionary theory and previous paleontological results to guide their search for the fossil in the first place:

    So, still claiming there are no "missing links"?

    I make a prediction - you will still make that claim, but seeing as you have already moved into the aargument from personal incredulity, there is nothing more that needs to be said.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,089
    He'll be back. Most creationists who I have seen posting online at pro-science places possess an amazing capacity for masochism.
     
  8. John99 Banned Banned

    Messages:
    22,046
    Dorudon
    Ambulocetus

    ???

    So what? Transition from water to land? What about alligators?

    Show me the original fossils and not an artists conception.

    -i'll be back in ten minutes.
     
  9. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,089
    The problem is, of course, that even if we drag John through a natural history museum and its archives, showing him every fossil they have from green algae to apes, it will never be enough.
     
  10. redwards I doubt it Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    290
    I'm sure glancing at the filenames was difficult. If you were identifying them from image alone, I'm guessing you would've spotted the dolphin.

    From one species to another. Does the rest matter?



    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Is this how you're going to go about it then? Attempt to disparage every fossil ever unearthed as a scientist's forgery aimed at undermining the divinity of Jesus?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  11. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    They keep raising the bar for evidence. Bacteria are transitional between alive and dead. Microscopic bubbles of ancient seawater within deep underground salt deposits have existed there for millions of years, and they can be revived with fresh water and live again.

    In fact, the entire surface of the Earth has been vaporized since life evolved, and it all came back from underground.
     
  12. redwards I doubt it Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    290
    On that note, I'm not believing in Jesus until they can produce his bones. Perfectly preserved. With a spearhead lodged in his side. And scratches on his skull from the thorns.
     
  13. John99 Banned Banned

    Messages:
    22,046
    I've seen it all before, and no i didnt know that was a dolphin. Duh, whats a dolphin?

    Why dont you trace the steps from the beginning to humans? The evidence you are giving is not evidence of evolution merely how you are interpreting it.

    Dorudon
    Ambulocetus
    Dolphin

    Now you tell me how you get a human from that. And explain to me why dolphins still live in the water as do multitudes of fish and coral that have existed as they always have for millions of years. With absolutely no desire to come on to land.

    What kind of a transition is that?


    Spidergoat:
    Exactly how did you arrive at the conclusion that Bacteria are transition from alive and dead or actually dead to alive.
     
  14. John99 Banned Banned

    Messages:
    22,046
    You know what spidrgoat? Tell me how to create a living bacteria from something else and explain to us what came before this living organism or its 'dead' stage?
     
  15. redwards I doubt it Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    290
    That wasn't what you asked for.

    Those are out of order. You asked me for one form which represents a transition from a previous form to a latter form. You got it.

    You don't, this is a very distant species from a human being. Why would you suggest such a thing?

    The transition was from land to water, genius. The dolphin is the last step, not the first. It appears that the extent of your rebuttal is, "this isn't evidence of evolution." Would you care to elaborate, or are you just going to thumb your nose at the transition I just presented?
     
  16. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    Why? Not knowing the exact steps does not disprove evolution. The power of evolution is that it is a blind process that can build complexity step by advantageous step. The theory proves that there was something simpler, and that it did come from so-called non living chemistry.
     
  17. John99 Banned Banned

    Messages:
    22,046
    Listen redwards, you are not talking to a 16 year old here. I know every single argument in favor of evolution and it did not meet my satisfaction.

    Spidergoat would you like to explain this to him or should I?
     
  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    You have yet to demonstrate the ability to relay accurately even one of the many supporting arguments and lines of evidence in favor of standard evolutionary theory.

    From what you seem to think are counter-arguments, it's possible you don't know any of them. Can you show me you can argue one of them, with the appropriate evidence ?

    btw: there are several fishes that show a great desire to get out on land and walk around. Mudskippers, Asian walking catfish, lungfish, etc.
     
  19. redwards I doubt it Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    290
    That's not the discussion we're having. You asked for transitional forms, I showed you one. Now you're trying to dodge the argument. You can't ignore my response on the basis of, "I've already discounted evolution."
     
  20. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    Uh, Dolphins are mammals, and mammals evolved on land. Why would a sea creature give up getting it's oxygen from water? Besides, there are innumerable points of evidence for this. There is a clear line of transition from fish to amphibian to lizard to mammal to monkeys to apes to humans. Of course it's more detailed than that. Evolution is one of the most amazing and powerful forces yet discovered. All it takes is some form of heredity and a selection force.
     
  21. John99 Banned Banned

    Messages:
    22,046
  22. Reiku Banned Banned

    Messages:
    11,238
    And so called ''non-living'' chemistry isn't really the point. In evolution there could only have been two steps to todays state. One in small steps, and the others in quantum leaps. But no matter which way it came about, the human brain and perception, intuition, feeling and sense are unique. This realm of self is said not to exist in either space or time; but i interpret this as saying in relation to matter and energy. In other words, this subdimension of self doesn't exist in space or time like matter or energy. Now we can use this as a reference.

    Either way, this thing called entropy, a measure of disorder and chaos, over so much time, given the right conditions, life. Disorder kind of gives rise to order. Is this evolution? Is entropy the king rule of evolution? There is a psychological evolution as well, and it is described as the psychological arrow of time. Like all the arrows of time, they all work in a forward directionality.

    But, puting evolution aside, there is a bigger coincidence than just life itself. Imagine an infinite amount of conditions a universe could be in, and then pick any random branch, and then you have something similar to what you had at the very dawn of time. How did this universe become to be chosen when others had not? If any single calculation where different, life wouldn't exist. I suppose this is the fuel for the Anthropic Principle.
     
  23. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    More accurately, continents collided to form an area where fresh water could form lakes and rivers. It started raining more because of oxygen producing bacteria that ended the great ice age and led to global warming. Smaller fish went there to escape predation. At the same time, trees evolved, dropping their branches and leaves into the water. The leaves rotted, depleting the water of oxygen. Therefore, fish evolved lungs to breathe and clawlike fins to navigate clogged waterways. This naturally led to fish that could exist on land, which were amphibians, some of which evolved to live in dryer environments which were lizards.
     

Share This Page