61% Believe in Evolution

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by sandy, Jan 2, 2008.

  1. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think Gerti was postulating the POOFING of a biblical god.
    Do you?

    jan.
     
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  3. jclemmons Registered Member

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    This thread reminds me of my high school experiences with evolution and creationism. I grew up in a small town in Eastern Kansas, and fortunately had a Biology teacher that was extremely over-qualified for her job and insisted on teaching the evolutionary theory (which was not exactly a popular notion). I remember the day that she introduced us to this topic, and the uproar that it caused with quite a few students. Until that day I never realized that there were so many closed-minded people, it amazed me that they weren't even going to listen and try to understand the theory before writing it off. I have always been the type to research and try to find answers, to discover all sides before coming to a conclusion for myself, so this was a major disillusionment. Their reaction prompted me to discover all that I could about both evolution and creationism, and within a year I was given an assignment in public speaking where I could actually present my information to these same students. The speech basically summarized both theories, and explained how both can coexist, that evolution didn't disprove creationism in any way. I am not sure that I made any impact at all, but it was something that I had become very passionate about and had felt obligated to at least present my findings.

    Everyone is entitled to their own views and opinions on things, but I found that a lot of their opinions were just a projection of their parent's, which is extremely unfortunate.
     
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  5. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Er, evolution does kind of preclude creationism.
     
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  7. Unimportant Registered Member

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    No, it doesn't. It preclude monotheistic religion claims, such as earth existing for a thousand years or "God" poofing the universe into existence in 7-days. It does not preclude a conception of spiritually, such as the "Law of One," which explains the creation of the universe from a intelligent creationist stand point.
     
  8. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Yes it does: creationism is the belief that humans were created as humans.

    Law of One? Steiner's woo-woo nonsense?
    Intelligent creationists?
    Riiight.
     
  9. 786 Searching for Truth Valued Senior Member

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    Well if human are a distinct specie and what was created were 'humans' then they are created 'as' human to the point when humans were created... that doesn't exclude evolution. before the point of 'human' there were no 'human'- that is why now you have to define what a human is- is a monkey a human? If not then a human is a human and thus can only be created 'as human'. It just depends how you wish to understand it- but admittedly atheists can't seem to think like this because they can't have evolution be understood in any manner that can be related to religions.

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  10. Unimportant Registered Member

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    Creationism is the religious belief that humanity, life, the Earth, and the universe were created in some form by a supernatural being or beings.

    ~Wikipedia

    Intelligent creationist is the only phrase I can come up with to describe the individual who disclosed my belief in the creation of the universe. It's arguable whether or not this individual is a human or a space entity on a higher level of awareness.

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  11. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    To add to the post above (Dywyddyr):

    Yes, Evolution theory DOES preclude Creationism.

    to one who understands how evolution works, it becomes quite clear that an intelligent designer of any supernatural kind is not only unnecessary or redundant- but rather absurd.
    An intelligent design to evolution is not just lacking- it's utterly missing.

    The ONLY possible "intelligent design" that fits into the observed evidence is a kind of cellular switching that helps enable or inhibit mutation depending on environmental stresses.

    For folks that Want To Believe... they will simply conclude that evolution is how a supernatural designer proceeded with life.
    this is an absurdity, considering that evolution bears no intelligence whatsoever in any "designs".
     
  12. 786 Searching for Truth Valued Senior Member

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    I can understand the 'unnecessary' part... as you state in the following

    But I still don't see the 'absurd' part- is this another example of atheists being over-zealous about keeping evolution from anything that can be related to religion? I don't know :shrug:

    Or perhaps that was just over-exaggeration?

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  13. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Notice the word "humanity" in there?
    If humanity was created then evolution didn't occur...

    In other words nothing with any evidence.
     
  14. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    The word "think" doesn't apply to the above: human is homo sapiens - if we were created as humans then we didn't evolve.

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  15. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    Ok... If you can then how come you cannot see the absurdity?



    No, it isn't.
    And let me start out by pointing out a few things...
    I used to be a Believer.
    It is not that I wish to press a "Belief" onto you. Rather, to demonstrate the most accurate model. If you choose to deny that model in favor of a belief, that is your choice.
    It is not that I wish to hurt you in any way by pointing out the cold facts.

    Being a newbie here- I must cover some things...

    Anyway, no, it is not an over zealous atheist thing.

    The absurdity comes from this:
    Imagine that an Intelligent Creator designed and brought forth the Universe, life on Earth and Humanity.
    In order to Facilitate this Belief in this designer, you must construct a fascinating conspiracy theory in which this Creator did EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to cover up and hide the fact that the Earth and life on it were intelligently designed.
    He would have to make it APPEAR as though no designer was involved in the rather random appearing traits that come and go. He would have to plan far, far in advance, planting false evidence over millions of years to mislead scientists into thinking that many evolutionary lines, species and whole families of creatures came into being and went extinct solely on evolutionary traits while hiding his design all the whole while in some inconceivable manner that cannot be detected in any way. All for the sake of tricking His Creation into thinking he could not possibly have been involved in the development of life under examination of the evidence. Trying to explain THAT part alone is a foray into irrational absurdities all by itself...

    A believer in ID must explain each and every conspiracy, cover up and false planting of evidence by the divine being along each step of the way to make it make any kind of sense--- and even then, you would have a highly improbable series of circumstances that would leave any rational person seeking tranquilizers for the describer.

    It delves very deeply into the realm of absurdity.

    Try reading here to learn more about evolution and the many absurdities in trying to define Intelligent design.

    I'm sorry- it's just the way it is.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2010
  16. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    I didn't say spirituality (which is what I think you meant). I said creation. which is the thousand years-God "poofing" part.
     
  17. Unimportant Registered Member

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    Stop generalizing.

    What if the creator created the universe, and life was consequent because of the natural rhythms of the universe?

    This suggestion incorporated the possibility of the creator creating the universe, and evolution taking effect at some point in time.

    Humanity wasn't created directly from my stand-point. The universe was created first and life proceeded due to the natural rhythms of the universe. If God created the universe and humanity was of consequent of that, can I label this creationism?
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2010
  18. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

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  19. 786 Searching for Truth Valued Senior Member

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    Actually that is only if you think of evolution as something separate from creation.... If creation is through evolution- there is no way you can differentiate them... but since you can't there is no other way you will 'see creation'- its not a 'coverup'- its simply how it happened. I think Evolution makes the creation all the more beautiful, all the more 'miraculous'. Its all about perspective

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  20. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    Huh?



    What if a giant space monkey spewed banana refuse all over in a bignormous space expansion that created everything?

    Well... this line of "reasoning" can get us nowhere fast...

    It seems quite irrational to assume a divine being created everything and then stepped back and evolution took over at that instant. 13 billion years of evolution and one instant of creation?
    It IS possible, but too irrational to bother entertaining the thought.

    If that is the case, Humanity was not predicatively created by God. It was just a consequence of what he did 13 billion years ago.
    Clearly, you do not understand how evolution works.

    Evolution would need to show Intelligent Design in order to claim that it is a Method of Creation by a supernatural being.

    How evolution could make creation seem more beautiful and miraculous makes no sense. You claim that something that makes divine intervention clearly irrelevant and strongly suggests its lack of existence as beautiful and miraculous?
    It's not perspective, 786...
    It's that you do not understand evolution and you want to believe in something greater.

    I'm willing to bet that you did not click the link to TalkOrigins I posted... and do some reading.
     
  21. 786 Searching for Truth Valued Senior Member

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    Why? I think the process of Evolution itself is ingenious- a code that seems to be well designed.

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  22. 786 Searching for Truth Valued Senior Member

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    Whatever, I didn't think you would understand anyways.

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    Last edited: Mar 20, 2010
  23. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    There's nothing to understand. If we were created as humans (which is what Creationism means) then evolution didn't occur - we were never anything else.
    Perhaps the choice of the term "Creationism" was an ill-advised move on the part of that poster.
    E.g. witness Unimportant's redefinition of the term...
     

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