6 billion and counting

Myles · Jul 16, 2008

Pronatalist said: ↑

Not even water "shortages" should be able to hinder the natural increase of humans.

Well, with cities and towns becoming more and more numerous, and having so many more people than before, and the gaps in between them increasingly filling with people, water obviously is a growing need. So rivers are becoming less free running, more dammed up by people, people are drilling more wells, and they say that underground aquifers are dropping.

With there getting to be more and more human anuses in the world, naturally populating more densely together, waterways become more easily contaminated with human and animal wastes.

What's the answer to all of that? Nothing at all about that, means people can't go on have their precious darling babies. Humans don't really drink all that much water. And the cost of water treatment quite often is minimal compared to the cost of the infrastructure to deliver the water, so imposing water "conservation" measures are largely irrelevant. But humans use water for many other things, farming, washing cars, washing clothes watering lawns. The answer is to build more dams and water projects, pay attention to the many human needs and wants, build more ocean water desalination plants and the cheap energy facilities needed to power them, and more of the developing countries are going to have to get more serious about people getting indoor flush toilets within their homes and "modernizing" to modern public sanitation sewer systems. (People do have immune systems, so locals quite often can drink filty water and quite often not get sick, while visitors are told not to drink the water but find something cleaner to drink, say like soda.) The old ways of "primitive" living, don't work so well anymore with more countries natually reaching the "tipping point" of flipping from having multiple acres per person, to having multiple people per acre. I figure that India now has 3 people per 2 acres. And I read that the depopulation agenda isn't working so well in India, as there's "population competition" pressure for various rival groups to not allow themselves to become swamped by other multiplying groups of people. But more "modern" convenience living, like how people in the Western world and big cities already pretty much take for granted, works a lot better with such dense and vast human populations as seem to naturally be "engulfing" more and more of the world.

And it's not even necessary to have all the answers first. As we find human populations naturally spreading, and naturally densifying, quite often what needs to be done to better ACCOMODATE so many people, becomes increasingly apparent. As people naturally grow more numerous, any nearby river or undergroud aquifer, becomes the rather "obvious" source of water. Population already tends to much cluster along coastal areas, and those areas at least have access to ocean water, which can be desalinated, if they have money or some industry (i.e. oil in Saudi Arabia) by which to pay for the water treatments.

It shouldn't be surprising, that parents yearning for babies, are going to have a "disconnect" between water "shortages" and having more babies. Parents don't need shoddy excuses to deny them their God-given children, but rather, humans are highly ADAPTABLE, so that should be seen as a strength, and so we should pronatalistally be exploring, at least somewhat, how we may indeed deliberately populate the planet denser and denser with people, for the sakes of our own progeny, and for the good of the many.

Also, I think that more remote wilderness forest fires should be left to nature, free to grow in size naturally during droughts, free to burn mostly unchallenged during the Spring, some hanging over to become summertime wildfires that more quickly then spread, or soon fizzle on their own with the fickle weather, to cut down on excessive firefighting costs and concentrate firefighting resources to more populated areas where they are more needed. But with people coming to live seemingly "everywhere," there's less and less "wild" places where nature can "do its thing," and I welcome natural human population growth to eventually and gradually displace some of the "wild" places where wildfires are left to "run their course," like up in unpopulated Alaska or northern Canada or Siberia, and even the wilderness eventually becomes less "wild" and more "tamed" by humans. With more population forests get fragmented, firebreaks/roads/freeways and such are added. It takes a vaster and denser world population, to make "taming" more of nature, more cost-effective and beneficial to humans.
Click to expand...

Why not do a tour of drought-stricken African and explain to them where they are going wrong ? How about a bit of Vatican rain dancing ?

South East England has constant water shortages owing to a greaer concentration in the area. I'm sure they would welcome your advice.

On the other hand, if it rained for 40 days and 40 nights who knows. Do you knowe of a cheap source of timber which I can buy by the cubit ?

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CutsieMarie89 · Jul 16, 2008

Breathing might become a bit difficult if we get rid of all the plants that aren't doing their part by paying taxes or voting. I don't know what part of India people commonly visit, but I went to visit a friend and his betrothed (or whatever I'm not sure what the actual term is) but nothing about the surrounding areas made me consider buying a home there. It was terrible and the children were so frail and sickly looking. There were people sleeping in the streets and there was no space to move anywhere, it was awful. There are few times I have ever been that depressed.

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Enmos · Jul 16, 2008

Pronatalist said: ↑

But some people may still find it "surprising." But fully expect that a world of "burgeoning billions" should show a few, perhaps obvious, perhaps not-so-obvious, signs of human domination. I don't at all mind to see some new housing developments going up, as I imagine it's necessary to best accomodate our growing numbers of our own progeny, or at least to allow people their choice of where they want to live. I like to see such "constructive" changes as those. To live in a world that little changes or progresses, can seem a bit "dull." I would like to see more youthful and faster-expanding populations in American cities, something like that of the faster-growing, more pronatalist developing countries, but of course, without the accompanying poverty. Such could be naturally expected, of a more public pronatalist mindset that deliberately encourages large families everywhere that people might happen to live. I advocate more people being possibly ready to marry young, and people to not "space" their children, but to welcome the natural flow of human life unhindered. Not rhythm, not NFP, but welcoming our babies to come as they come, just as fast as our bodies want to make more babies. The "no method" method of "family planning," the most natural and pro-life of them all.
Click to expand...

You are either an idiot, extremely ignorant, or trolling..
Which is it ?

Pronatalist said: ↑

Not really. I'm not really an outdoor person. Sure, I like to go on a hike out in the woods once in a while. But that doesn't make me some greenie-weenie, nor some nature-worshipper. I more prefer the "natural" in our own bodies, where it would seem to most matter to us. Not directly polluting the body with nasty cancer stick cigarettes, no ugly tattooing inks, no bizarre body piercings, and no shoddy awkward unnatural contraceptive potions and poisons. Allowing the human reproductive system to function naturally proudly growing babies inside as they will come, just like any other system of the body. When I go on a hike, I always carpool with a group, as I never go to "get away from it all," but to meet people, and I see more scenery out car windows as a rider rather than a driver. I don't mind at all if hiking trails are crowded, I rather liked some lady in our group bringing her dog and taking her dog's leash off and letting him run around with us. I couldn't care about the difference so much of "pristine" untouched forests, or human-altered "plantation" forests. To me, forest is forest.

Even nature appears to prefer not the old quaint "balance" but the "new balance" of humans naturally growing more and more numerous. I want to see human deliberately make whatever adjustments appropriate to that. Building beautiful gleaming cities. Planting a few flowers in their yards if they like. We should deliberately make certain alterations to the world, to help humans enjoy being more vast and denser in numbers, more comfortably and safely. Not to trash our neighborhoods with ugly graffiti and trash, as if we don't even care about one another. Maybe we can't "control" our powerful primal reproductive urges so much as we like to imagine we can, so make the best of a wonderful situation.

In some magazine article, I read of some feminist author talking negative about how so many people in the developing countries supposedly breed. Ping! Ping! Ping!, she opines. A baby on a mother's back, another baby inside her belly, and another toddler following behind. How could anybody see that as "disgusting?" I see it as beautiful, as I want to see the already "huge" human race, loving each and every human life as immensely valuable and sacred, such that we would go on eagerly multiplying and welcoming all the more people to experience life. So the region is growing more dense people. So what? It's their right, and human reproduction is a primal powerful urge that most all humans naturally share. So why can't we use our "logic" to try to understand, why the human race really ought to eagerly further ENLARGE our numbers, as God and nature would obviously welcome us to and allow. Large families are still quite cool, because they allow more people to come alive and enjoy life. I find "birth control" highly unnatural and disgusting, so why not welcome "baby after baby" or Ping! Ping! Ping!, especially among those parents, who rather really do seem to prefer their "traditionally very large" families, in China, or wherever they may happen to live.

Not really. I don't want to mine just to mine, but because I need something. It's rather just sort of funny, and perhaps a bit more like how we ought to be thinking about favoring our neighbors, and trying to love thy neighbor as thyself. If so many people are going to need various resources, we had better mine them somewhere. On earth seems the obvious cheapest way, out in unpopulated areas, not digging caves under people's homes. But in the future or in sci-fi movies, maybe someday, mining asteroids will become attractive? Who knows?

Oh, and I forgot the other bumper sticker.

"I (heart) animals. They are delicious."

I sometimes like to joke with my little nephews, because I am a bit bothered with these movies and cartoons that too much make wild animals seem too much like people, confusing the little kids. When they watch the movie "Charlottes Web," I ask, "Where do they get to the part where they eat Wilber, the pig?" Or I tell people that "Bambi" belongs on my dinner plate.

I would prefer, rather than having to farm all that land, and doing all that digging for mining, that people have Star Trek-like "food replicators." Why mine resources, if we can simply re-order the molecules and "replicate" what we need? Wouldn't it be nice to not have to constantly buy stuff? But then, the "food replicator" doesn't seem to "help" cows much. Once we can "copy" a great steak, who needs cows anymore? Why deal with milk going sour, when I can "replicate" a new glass? So then we can finally get rid of most of the cows, and leave a few cows in zoos?

Some preacher was talking on the radio, about the promised New Jerusalem, created by God, not by human hands, that comes down from the sky in Revelation. Something about what an enormous city it would be, and all the people it would hold, and it would be clean, not polluting like how humans do. Something about how things that people make are imperfect, but how God creates perfect.

But until the promised endtimes, we obviously have to do something to get by. The world seems fairly sure to grow to at least 8 billion people, and India probably to at least 1.5 billion. That's more people, not less. Wouldn't it be better to do something to prepare to welcome them, rather than to irrationally fear "what must be?" Regardless of all the prattle about what the future may or may not be like, I would like to welcome the prospect of possibly having a large family, as I don't believe in humans using any means of "birth control," and I understand that quite many people feel likewise, for various "religious" and practical reasons. Some actually just like children or like being pregnant. All that is quite understandable, as most of us likely are the descendents of those of our ancestors, most into breeding babies. So should it be any wonder that as they say, "What populates the planet is extremely pleasurable?" God must have had some profound purpose to create us such.
Click to expand...

:wallbang:
Well ?

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Sciencelovah · Jul 16, 2008

The resources on earth are pretty much renewable and the earth itself is not a confined system, or?
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Pinocchio's Hoof · Jul 16, 2008

Enmos said: ↑

You are either an idiot, extremely ignorant, or trolling..
Which is it ?
Click to expand...

That's a bit harsh,have you read the thread...lol I had to look up pronatalist to see what it meant and was warned in post 82..lol he IS 'Pronatalist the unmovable,impossible to topple no condom can hold him Pronatalist'
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. Good luck......:bravo:

Sciencelovah · Jul 16, 2008

We aren't living inside the globe, but on the surface of the globe, and hence, an
open system, or a non-confined system. Hard to say where is the limit :shrug:

Sciencelovah · Jul 16, 2008

Also, what forms the food? At the end of the food chain, the producers are the
plantation. In a photosynthesis, the substrate to make the food and hence to
create plantation are CO2 + water + light. The place where the plantation grow
are basically on soils. Soils are basically broken rock particles. Earth is made up
mainly from them. I don't think there can be enough human in the sense of there
are 'unlimited' resource. Soon enough human will build layers of life on earth
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Pronatalist · Jul 16, 2008

Yeah, the earth is nowhere near full, and so we should welcome the world to naturally grow "fuller" of people.

inzomnia said: ↑

I assume that Pronatalist is trying to say that this earth is not really unlimited in resource, but because there are still many left unexplored and that human aren't using their full potential to utilize the resource yet, there is no need to be worry.

To that extent I will agree. The survival of the human race depends on how fast they can invest in securing the needs for the coming generation. With all the genetic engineered food, ability of providing space in a vertical ways (building up), extract drinking water from urine, and all other inventions, seems that the existing capacity is "unlimited".
Click to expand...

Finally somebody understands my pro-life focus!

As somebody said, either was find space for more families, or we curtail birthrates. Now which do we think the parents ahem breeders would prefer? Well since we are going to have to find or more place for even more families, and perhaps even huger and denser human generations to come, why don't explore how we might do that better?

Yes, sewage could potentially be "recycled," nature already does this, but humans find ways already to make nature do this natural renewal, even more efficiently. They frankly admit to "recycling" sewage on an episode of the last installment of the Star Trek franchise, "Enterprise." On one episode, they have some linkup from the spaceship to some school on the planet, and some kid asks, when you flush the toilet (on a spaceship) where does it go? It goes into a "biomatter resequencer" and it's used to make boots, or whatever stuff people may need. Currently, I think waste-water treatment plants filter off the sludge and bury it or use it for fertilizer. It's processed sufficiently to prevent spread of disease.

Naturally-rising world population density, of course could be a valid concern, but a concern to make sure we are making whatever needed adaptations so that people may go on enjoying having their precious darling babies. By "scooting over" a bit, room enough can be found for everybody, and everybody's progeny too. It's counterproductive to needlessly worry and fret about it, but rather to make the best of the situation. I don't believe that all of nature was meant to be "controlled" by humans, but that humans are commanded to alter nature to better meet their needs. That's why God gave humans dominion over nature and other creatures, as stated in Genesis 1. We are supposed to "tend the Garden," not at all to "worship nature," but to honor God and multiply the people God created, ourselves, in the image of God.

Nature is resilient. The planet can much more easily bear the rising human population "pressure," than humans can be expected to go against nature and struggle needlessly to more "regulate" their fertility. There can simply come to be more places with lots of people and fewer places far from lots of people. So many people like to go on breeding. That's obviously quite possible, but then, on the global scale at least, we shall have to learn and adapt to live and breed in closer proxity to other people, so that everybody can somehow fit upon the planet. So I have long advocated that the various nations all populate themselves up denser and denser with their own people, as it helps the planet to hold so many people people, all the more people to experience life. There's far too many better options, that don't require fewer babies to be born. So why needlessly discriminate against the future generations?, who really would prefer to be welcome to be and become all the more populous. Why not respect the natural flow of human life to flow naturally unhindered, as nature or God would have meant or much prefers?

Enmos · Jul 16, 2008

Pronatalist said: ↑

Finally somebody understands my pro-life focus!
Click to expand...

It is not pro-life, it is extremely pro-human almost to the point of being anti-life.

Enmos · Jul 16, 2008

Pinocchio's Hoof said: ↑

That's a bit harsh,have you read the thread...lol I had to look up pronatalist to see what it meant and was warned in post 82..lol he IS 'Pronatalist the unmovable,impossible to topple no condom can hold him Pronatalist'
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. Good luck......:bravo:
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Harsh ? I thought I contained myself pretty well..

Enmos · Jul 16, 2008

inzomnia said: ↑

The resources on earth are pretty much renewable and the earth itself is not a confined system, or?
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Click to expand...

How much people do you think the Earth can provide with food ?
10 billion ?
20 billion ?
Virtually all plant and animal life will be long gone by the time we reach 20 billion, if we ever get there.

People need oxygen, water, food.
No animals and plants and we would pretty much run out of two of those.

Pronatalist · Jul 16, 2008

Isn't Africa still about the fastest-population-growing area of the world?

Even AIDS seems to be falling fall short of "controlling" the population growth, as much as some radical population phobics would have liked, it seems. Maybe more people are figuring out that sex is supposed to be monogamous? And/or, humans are getting better at treating diseases and somehow allowing more poor people to participate?

Myles said: ↑

Why not do a tour of drought-stricken African and explain to them where they are going wrong ? How about a bit of Vatican rain dancing ?

South East England has constant water shortages owing to a greaer concentration in the area. I'm sure they would welcome your advice.

On the other hand, if it rained for 40 days and 40 nights who knows. Do you knowe of a cheap source of timber which I can buy by the cubit ?
Click to expand...

And why should I do a tour, when the gasoline prices are way too high, due to us still irrationally refusing to drill our own oil.

Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less.
americansolutions.com

Sign the petition to lowers gasoline prices.

All you have to do, is go read at overpopulation.com, if the article(s) is still there, about how the "third world" is shrinking, that it now largely consists of a few backward African Marxist dictatorships. That's largely what they are doing wrong. Too much tribal warfare, too much uncivilized behavior, not enough free markets activity.

England is surrounded by ocean, and certainly England would have access to ocean water desalination technology, should it ever become cost-effective to obtain water in such a manner. Doesn't Saudi Arabia already do this?

As I said, allowing water "shortages" to creep up upon people, does not at all decrease their reproductive urges. Babies may still come REGARDLESS. People are going to find water, one way or another, even if they have to buy questionable bottle water, or soda, on the black (or street) market. If adapting is one of humanity's huge strengths, why don't we use it a bit more?

Sciencelovah · Jul 16, 2008

Enmos said: ↑

How much people do you think the Earth can provide with food ?
10 billion ?
20 billion ?
Virtually all plant and animal life will be long gone by the time we reach 20 billion, if we ever get there.

People need oxygen, water, food.
No animals and plants and we would pretty much run out of two of those.
Click to expand...

Perhaps I have become crazy or twisted, but I believe that we need more and
more human.

The output that human can produce, I believe, outweigh the input that they take,
provided that they utilize their potential until full extent.
Input = food, water, oxygen,...
Output = work, energy, technology, ideas,...

Soon enough human will be able to make bridge from earth to mars
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They will
be able to condition mars into becoming a habitable planet. You need more resources
(human) for that purpose.

Enmos · Jul 16, 2008

Pronatalist said: ↑

Even AIDS seems to be falling fall short of "controlling" the population growth, as much as some radical population phobics would have liked, it seems.
Click to expand...

Exactly, we are analogous to cancerous cells.
Extremely hard to kill off but in the end they die by their own success.

Enmos · Jul 16, 2008

inzomnia said: ↑

Perhaps I have become crazy or twisted, but I believe that we need more and
more human.

The output that human can produce, I believe, outweigh the input that they take,
provided that they utilize their potential until full extent.
Input = food, water, oxygen,...
Output = work, energy, technology, ideas,...

Soon enough human will be able to make bridge from earth to mars
Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
They will
be able to condition mars into becoming a habitable planet. You need more resources
(human) for that purpose.
Click to expand...

Inzomnia !
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Sciencelovah · Jul 16, 2008

Enmos said: ↑

Inzomnia !
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Enmos!
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How are you, new bf? How are our kittens? Do you take care of them well?
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j/k
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Pronatalist · Jul 16, 2008

The confining Earth, isn't really so confining after all.

inzomnia said: ↑

The resources on earth are pretty much renewable and the earth itself is not a confined system, or?
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Click to expand...

True, the earth isn't really "confined" any more than the human womb is "confined." Yeah, we are stuck in this gravity well, but that isn't at all our eternal destiny.

A baby in the womb may feel quite "confined," but they actually like it that way, at first, even after birth. And such "confinement" doesn't at all stop them from growing. Actually, I think babies trigger their own birth, by naturally "outgrowing" the womb. Why do I say that babies like being "confined?" Because shortly after birth, wrapping them up tight, with their head outside the blanket or cloth, so that they can't wave their arms around, comforts them and helps them relax and sleep. Probably because it more mimics the condition to which they are accustomed, having been for 9 months in the "confining" womb.

Most of the "resources" of nature, are still largely wasted, and not even harvested or tapped by humans.

Enmos · Jul 16, 2008

inzomnia said: ↑

Enmos!
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How are you, new bf? How are our kittens? Do you take care of them well?
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j/k
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Click to expand...

I'm serious though, we should be working to decrease the Earths population of humans, not to increase it.

The kittens are well
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Sciencelovah · Jul 16, 2008

Enmos said: ↑

I'm serious though, we should be working to decrease the Earths population of humans, not to increase it.

The kittens are well
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Click to expand...

There is no need to decrease the human population, they manage themselves.
Education are getting expensive, housing as well, not to mention insurance and
health care system. People no longer started to reproduce at 20 or 25. What to
worry? :shrug:

I went to Paris early this month, most houses are built 7 floors, they are looking
just ok. Rigid and stable. People worry about this 2.5% freshwater on earth.
Meanwhile, the 97.5% remain untouchable. Human will find a way to reuse
and recycle everything in sustainable way.

I am glad that the kittens are well.
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Pronatalist · Jul 16, 2008

Pinocchio's Hoof said: ↑

That's a bit harsh,have you read the thread...lol I had to look up pronatalist to see what it meant and was warned in post 82..lol he IS 'Pronatalist the unmovable,impossible to topple no condom can hold him Pronatalist'
Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
. Good luck......:bravo:
Click to expand...

Look up "pronatalist?" You don't have to go far to look it up. Take your pick. dictionary.com or urbandictionary.com. The latter is my definition that I submitted. BTW, notice all the thumbs up.

Another objection I have to unnatural awkward shoddy contraceptive potions and poisons, is its connection to Big Pharma. Want to know more of that angle? Check out this funny YouTube video:

YouTube - Big Pharma Ultimate Commerical

I much detest them trying to exploit us and turn us into experimental lab rats, for their nasty shoddy anti-life contraceptives.

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