2nd Ammendment

Discussion in 'Politics' started by jayleew, Nov 9, 2005.

  1. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,309
    So what were those that fought England? A gang? What are a group of terrorists? In context with what happened before 1776, I would guess the fathers had in mind the right to organize and stand together on the field of battle against enemies foreign and domestic, regardless of if the group is endorsed by the government or not.

    At best, the 2nd ammendment is out of date, because theorhetically, we should not have to execute the 2nd ammendment if everything else is in order. But, regardless of if citizens have the right to bear arms, criminals disregard laws and regulations and the black market will always exist. Criminals will have guns, and we have the right to defend ourselves with like force. Or don't we? There is no other solution to this problem than to give the individual the right to bear arms. If there is, I'm all ears.
     
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  3. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

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    I guess we're gonna play "my dictionary vs yours"? Fine, I'll bite:

    There, my first definition shows the main definition being a civilian force, not a government-controlled professional one. This is, the most common definition and understanding of a militia, as well. This is, as Jayleew mentioned, what happened when we fought for our independence, which, since we're talking about the ammendments and laws that founded our country, would be what our forefathers had in mind. A civilian militia is an UNORGANIZED militia, not an organized professional one. People continue to refer to the whole "well regulated" part in the 2nd Ammendment. Well regulated does NOT mean "government controlled". Since the whole freakin ammendment refers to bearing arms, that shows that is what makes an army well-regulated. Without arms, a milita or army is NOTHING, no matter how well-trained and organized you are. Civilians train THEMSELVES, they make themselves "well-regulated" by firing at critters on their ranch, going to shooting ranges, you name it.

    Again, are you going to fail to see the whole "organized" and "UNORGANIZED" parts of the definition on militias?

    Organized militias are part of the government and are already issued arms. Why in the heck do we need a 2nd Ammendment that tells us redunancy about "an army needs the ability to bear arms"? Because it refers to ORDINARY people, an UNORGANIZED militia, the regular citizens that came to arms, in no uniforms, to fight against the British in our fight for independence. Talk about pretty damned selective reading.

    - N
     
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  5. good choice
    as I said, good choice, did you see this?
    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=10&sec=311
    the "whole"? you mean 1 clause, funny that 4 clauses are so hard to understand
    or feet, hehehehe
    just like the movie, "Stripes", huh? they're talking about the Minutemen, Neildo are you ready to defend the US when called?
    no, but you did
    to remind us, that we can all be called to duty, if the British invade again
    yeah, I agree, you have a problem, we'll work on it, little by little
     
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  7. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

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    Uh, of course I saw that, as I'm the one that posted that entire piece in my post you're responding to. What's your point? Again, SELECTIVE reading on your part. You fail to read the whole darn part of Title 10: Section 311, just as you continue to not read the whole 2nd ammendment as well. You once again ignore the whole part of an UNORGANIZED militia which consists of people not part of the organized National Guard or Naval Militia. In other words, plain ol' citizens, which also aren't under government control. And this is the type of militia that existed when the 2nd Ammendment was written.

    The only government control that will ever happen with an unorganized militia is with the Federalist Papers that you mentioned, which is basically just an "oh shit, we're under attack, lemme give you guys a quick run through so that we'll be somewhat more effective cause we need all the help we can get" which is the same thing that happens with a draft. A draft takes normal citizens and trains them for a couple weeks when they weren't previously a part of any branch of the service. And you know what? Thank goodness those citizens, that chose to, had their arms and were able to train themselves during their ordinary civilian lives, otherwise we'd have some real crappy militiamen being trained as an absolute beginner!

    Um, if I wasn't ready to defend the US when called, I wouldn't even bother to argue about this. I wouldn't even care about or even touch guns in the first place as you are. So hell yes! I'll be so ready that I won't even have to be called. My ass will be across the street in the seabee base I live near. I'll be up and ready doing the part of what a militia is intended to do, just not the role of the exploited National Guard militia where instead of being on reserved for homeland defense, I'm not gonna be a pawn for the government sending me overseas as a professional soldier. I'll defend my homeland, not anothers. I'll be up and ready taking my shooting skills with me while you continue to sit behind your keyboard trying to restrict our rights to make us crappy marksmen by not allowing anyone to touch a weapon until the time comes! I know whoever does wind up invading us, they sure do love foolish people such as yourself helping their cause. One of the things that keeps the United States military above all others, isn't just our technology, but our training, and sadly you wanna take that advantage away from us.

    - N
     

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