2020 election = 1877 again?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by sculptor, Jun 13, 2020.

  1. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Will congress decide this year's election?
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  3. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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  5. CptBork Valued Senior Member

    It's probably going to be decided by a Supreme Court rapist.
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  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    With any luck, enough Americans will come to their senses sufficiently to turf out Trump and elect somebody moderately competent.
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  8. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    What a pity that we have no such alternative.
  9. CptBork Valued Senior Member

    Do you agree that the US two-party first past the post system needs to be revised? And what exactly has Joe Biden done that makes him seem incompetent?
  10. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Biden is an obvious alternative. He'd do a far better job than Trump, obviously.
  11. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    "I don't care who does the electing, so long as I get to do the nominating."-----boss tweed
    The 2 party system does not seem to represent the interests of the majority of the electorate.

    as/re: Biden
    I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe Biden any more competent than Trump.
    On the downside, Biden is an elite washington insider, career politician and party hack with a dubious past.
    Are you familiar with the "Biden crime bill"? And the millions thereby incarcerated, at a cost to the taxpayer of billions or trillions of dollars?
    Biden, the senator from mbna
    MBNA hired the son of Joe Biden during the years when Biden was a Senator and was pushing for bankruptcy reform legislation supported by the company, which became law and makes it more difficult for average americans to acquire bankruptcy protection.
    It seems that:
    A vote for biden is a vote for systemic corruption.
    A vote for biden is a vote for corporatocracy ...
  12. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    I doubt that, unless you're willing to sell out your fellow citizens for certain corporate interests, then, Joe is your guy.
  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Well, obviously to anybody who takes an interest in what goes on in governing the nation.

    Biden was Vice President under Obama for years. You have only to look at his performance and compare to Trump's performance as President to realise that Biden is streaks ahead of Trump when it comes to being a competent administrator of Executive power. I guess you haven't done that, which probably explains why you can't tell the difference between Biden and Trump.

    In what sense is Trump not an "elite Washington insider"? What fantasy world are you living in?
    The politicians we tend to get these days are almost all "career politicians". While there are arguably downsides to that, when it comes to a choice between two men like Trump and Biden, it's hardly relevant.

    As for "dubious pasts", you surely can't be completely unaware of Trump's past, in business and in his personal life, can you? You've had four years to find out about that, if you were interested in informing yourself. What have you discovered?

    You're comparing to Trump, remember. Biden is running against Trump.

    Trump is a man whose concern in high office has been his own enrichment and his own public image. His nepotism in his appointments to roles in his administration would be obvious if you'd payed attention. His corruption has been exposed in many separate investigations. Why does none of that register with you?

    As for corporatocracy, look at Trump's connections to the fossil fuel industries. Never mind his own businesses, which he has been enriching by misuse of his office. Look at how his policies benefit big corporations at the expense of Mom and Dad taxpayers.

    What kind of news bubble do you live in that you're apparently unaware of how regularly Trump just tells lies and makes up "alternative facts" to suit himself? You're so lost that you can't tell what's real anymore, or what matters.

    Mind you, it's not just you. By a lot of measures, about 35-45 of Americans are similarly content to live in a world of actual fake news (not the fake "fake news" that Trump uses to sow confusion and avoid accountability).

    Trump has you wrapped around his little finger. Will you wake up?
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  14. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    "I have seen nothing", has become a strange mantra. I can get variations on the theme it from a hardline atheist, vapid theistic advocate, "not a Trump supporter" laboring to mitigate Trump's negatives, and, well, now you; I do recall one time you tried to imply you weren't pro-Trump but anti-someone else, but that was a few years back, and it really doesn't matter inasmuch as there wasn't, in your case, any substantial difference.

    It's not that they're all traditionalists, or even necessarily conservatives; but they are all, in their way, connected by supremacism. It's kind of weird; the theistic advocate happens to also push white supremacism, the atheist covets empowerment to supremacism, and both you and the "not a Trump supporter" use rhetoric that mitigates and minimizes actual supremacism.

    • • •​

    You're not wrong, but the thing about luck and who turns out is that we're aiming for over two hundred thousand dead of Covid by October 1, and are watching Republicans suppress voters and subvert elections. Moreover, the latest push to utterly wreck the United States Postal Service—whose existence is a constitutional obligation (I.8.vii)—seeks to disrupt voting by mail.

    I do expect we can elect Biden, but so many unimaginable things have occurred in the last five years that I cannot afford the basic assurance of presupposing that attempts to subvert the election will fail, and one of the reasons it is best to eschew chatter predicting Trump's refusal to vacate office is that few, if any, genuinely expect a good-faith transition; even if all goes well, we'll have to see how bad it gets.
  15. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Every once in awhile, I still hope that the dnc can get their collective heads out of their collective assholes and find a way to represent the people.
    And, it ain't just the democrats, both parties, and our millionaire's congress, have consistently failed the electorate.
    Which, most likely, is why so many people went for a "strong man" outsider.

    At least, he ain't started another idiotic/criminal war-------what we did to libya and syria was criminal, and did nothing but to support terrorists-----------------------------------------perhaps, that was the goal all along?
    Give us terrorist to keep us afraid.
    During feudalism, if the peasants grew restive, the local lord would round up his bully boys and attack the neighboring lord's peasants.
    The neighboring lord would then round up his bully boys and attack the local lord's peasants-who would run to the local lord begging his protection, and give up some of their freedoms in the process.

    nothing changes
    unless the rivers run red with the blood of the elites
    and even then
    the change seems ephemeral.
  16. CptBork Valued Senior Member

    Trump's refusal to sanction Russia has caused more destruction in Ukraine and Syria than anything Obama did.
  17. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Do you not find it curious that:
    The democrats have chosen to vilify Russia
    The republicans have chosen to vilify China

    if we had a third party, would they choose to vilify India?
  18. CptBork Valued Senior Member

    I would hope not. Of the three, India's the only one that at least makes an effort to give people basic rights.
  19. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

    Third party would vilify democrats and republicans and keep it in house

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  20. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    unless, of course, you are not hindu
  21. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    The common use of personal ignorance as evidence supporting an argument is one of the key identifying characteristics of that political faction.

    The question is - of course - competent at what?
    Biden has shown he is minimally capable of handling many of the daily tasks of governance, such as identifying and appointing competent officials to key agency positions. Trump has shown he is not capable of that.

    Biden can (and often does) keep his facts straight when referring to (or reasoning about) events of the near and distant past, Trump cannot do that (Trump not only lies, flagrantly: he almost never speaks accurately, no more than a random decision tree would. As far as is visible he can't - he doesn't know enough about physical reality).

    So two points for Biden, assuming one prefers better governance to worse.

    But: Trump is a supremely competent grifter and con man, currently running (almost singlehanded!) one of the most glorious long cons in human history As his lame forays into underhanded dealings shows, Biden could never have done that, even before he started losing mental function.

    So what competencies were you looking for, that would be equivalent in such different men?
  22. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    A third Party would hopefully "vilify" (meaning: describe accurately) both China and Russia.
    Also Pakistan and India and Syria and Saudi Arabia and Turkey and Brazil, etc.

    That would be a consequence of their being less corrupt than the Dems, even, let alone the rotting shambles that is the current Republican Party. https://www.lexico.com/definition/shambles

    Why do you ask?
  23. CptBork Valued Senior Member

    They do a lot more for Muslims than Pakistan does for Hindus, and at least they're not putting millions of Muslims through concentration camps like China is currently doing.

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