2 year old girl left to die in street

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by wsionynw, Oct 17, 2011.

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  1. birch Valued Senior Member

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    it is the same people everywhere else but it's the laws and enforcement that dictate how people act in general. china's laws are not humane and enforced enough yet.

    unfortunately, how things change is when things like this happen and there is more coverage, pressure and outrage. something really bad has to happen, people must complain a lot or revolt and when enough is enough.

    there are people like this everywhere in degrees from indifference to cruelty to outright viciousness. most people do it passive-aggressively or just enough torture or cruelty that they can't get prosecuted or what is considered hidden crimes, usually just emotional or mental abuse but not outright murder-not because of empathy but to save their own ass. that's how many people actually are. people tend to not care unless it's their own, just as in this case. the police are right in that murder like this is not common but the cruelty and indifference is common. it's just not something that can be reported.

    http://mcself.wordpress.com/2010/04/17/memorial-to-dominick-calhoun-4-year-old-tortured-to-death/
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2011
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  3. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    Even here in NY where people tend to be pretty tough, this wouldn't ever happen. This just wouldn't happen in the USA. People are definitely not the same everywhere as enmos wishes to imagine.
     
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  5. Anti-Flag Pun intended Registered Senior Member

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    So there's no hit and runs in America then? Completely impossible for you to imagine a group of those people being in the same place at the same time and not wanting to help huh?
    Must be nice behind those rose-tinted specs.
     
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  7. RedRabbit Registered Senior Member

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    @Signal: You're right. I made a boo-boo there. Was a bit emotional no doubt.

    I wonder how many people here denigrating Chinese culture and preaching on how the Chinese people are alienated from eachother have ever actually been there.

    I'm betting on none.
     
  8. Anti-Flag Pun intended Registered Senior Member

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    Well, why would they ever want to leave their perfect countries?

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  9. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    Anything is remotely possible. But a dying 2 year old being ignored by pedestrians in Manhattan probably wouldn't ever happen. By contrast, this happens in China all the time. The other day there was a video about this happening to a Chinese woman on a bicycle.

    When a nation of people grows up looking the same and being trained to think and act the same, it's easy to imagine why their sense of individuality and conscience becomes rather muted within their psyche. That is what makes the Chinese capable of this cruelty. Life has been cheap there for centuries. This is the same country that came up with "Death by a Thousand Cuts" (Ling Chi). And let's not forget Tianenmen Square.

    There's a famous Chinese expression "Kill the weak and enjoy the tea." Looks like that's what happened to this 2 year old.

    By the way, if you are of Asian descent, try to avoid letting that cloud your vision in this issue.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2011
  10. RedRabbit Registered Senior Member

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    Sweet Jebus! :facepalm:
     
  11. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    You're shocked? China is officially one of the worst human rights abusers in the world.
     
  12. RedRabbit Registered Senior Member

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    No doubt. But seeing as they grow up "looking the same and being trained to think and act the same", I doubt they'll ever know which one of them is having their rights violated.

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    Then again such enlightened countries as, say, the USA (founded on the back of genocide, built on the back of slavery and sustained on the back of military might and terrorist acts) probably wouldn't be counted because they have the moral authority, doncha know. :shrug:
     
  13. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    I think rather that they develop a different sense of individuality and conscience than Westerners do.
    Ie. their sense of individuality and conscience are geared toward survival, a considerable willingness to sacrifice the wellbeing of others for one's own wellbeing.
    I don't think they lack empathy; they just learn to evaluate it differently.
    If anything, I think the Chinese (along with Indians and some others) are far more individualistic than we Westerners are. I think their individualism is mainly internal, while ours is mainly external (ie. we show our individualism by how we dress, where and how we live, eat, whom we associate with, what schools we go to, where we work etc., while they show it in persisting against odds).
    I think they are also more resilient, more courageous, tolerate distress and hardship better than we do.
     
  14. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    Do you have a point? Genocide, slavery, terrorism isn't practiced in the USA and using loaded words whose meaning and implications have changed over time doesn't impress. Besides, do you mean to say past events excuse future wrongs? China is a far older country than the USA, and they still haven't advanced beyond their caveman mentality. Chew on that. Maybe people will begin respecting them once they join the rest of us in the 21st century, if that ever happens.
     
  15. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    That's a load of nonsense. Who do you think you're kidding, really? What you described isn't individuality. Its an anthill mentality. Its also rather sociopathic, which is why China is such a lawless shithole.
     
  16. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member

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    CBC News has reported on the 2 year old girl of this thread and some of the reaction to this situation. In part, people are reluctant to help because of recent court rulings which have awarded large sums of money in lawsuits brought against those who have stopped to aid.

    Fear of reprisal can be a stronger emotion than compassion.

    My car was recently struck at high speed by a drunk driver, hit and run. Much damage to the vehicle, and I was fortunate to escape injury. Days later, another woman was struck down in the street by a hit and run.

    We are not so very much more civilized, IMO.

    Some people will get involved to help others, while others will not.

    CBC was not certain of the status of the 2 year old, who finally received hospital care, but believes that she has died.

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  17. RedRabbit Registered Senior Member

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    The USA wouldn't exist without them. They were very clearly used in the past tense as you have used to substantiate your claims as to why the Chinese people in the video acted the way they did. You can't use the argument that you know what the Chinese are like now because of their history without turning that same incisive intellect on other countries. Lets's revist your original post, shall we, and delete those things based on supposed historical evidence, logical fallacies and guess work:

    Not true.

    A guess, at best. Homeless people die in the US all the time and people regularly walk past them without helping them.

    "All the time...."? Evidence?

    Sorry, historical evidence of one incident, in the past, to portray 1.3 billion people as all the same not allowed. One murder in Calafornia last week does not mean that all Americans are gun-toting lunatics even if another American is shot today, which will most certainly happen.

    Blatantly racist and untrue. You've never been there, have you?

    Another logical fail.

    How much was James Somerset?

    Then why doesn't it happen in all countries that have very violent pasts? Actually, strike that. Can't use that because it's historical. Sorry.

    Of course it is.

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    You've taken one Chinese saying and labelled an entire race as unsympathetic because the philosphy of the Chinese is enshrined in that one line. Confucius should have stayed in bed. And "gain wealth, forgetting all but self", is a pathological term that many people in the West live by. Let's degrade all of them.

    If you say so, Massa.

    You certainly haven't let the fact that your not Chinese, nor know anything about them or their culture affect your judgement.
     
  18. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    And yet, they are the same kind of people as you and me.
    Were you or I born there we could have been, for example, one of those passers-by.

    Their behavior is, sadly, human.
     
  19. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    This is very true. It is also true their society should be shunned as a result.

    It has no honour.
     
  20. Cifo Day destroys the night, Registered Senior Member

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    Here's a couple Americans with their own style of hit-and-run. (source, source) However, for the life of me, I can't imagine American witnesses seeing such things and not calling the police. (Yes, I know about the Kitty Genovese incident, but it is now known that the media exaggerated what neighbors heard and saw.)

    Sounds like they lack the Good Samaritan laws that America has formed. But, then again, being a Good Samaritan is a Christian principle. Remember that persons in government are generally reflect the nation as a whole. In the death of this child, no one even called for help or asked someone to call for help.

    A recent story (source) reminds me of one I read about years back, where a foreign woman in China found a baby abandoned in the woods. She took it to a hospital, where the doctor examined the baby, laughed at the woman, and told her that she performed a disservice to the baby because it had a serious heart defect and should have been left to die in the woods.
     
  21. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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  22. Search & Destroy Take one bite at a time Moderator

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    i live in China and I'm not going to bother reading the thread. Just know that it's not a very uncommon story and grabs attention because it is from the capital city and involves a kid. A dude on a motorbike in some 3rd tier city on the other hand... I've seen it. The problem stems from accident scams, and people drive past thinking they will just get scammed.

    It's pretty crazy the sh** that goes on. Two nights ago I stopped a woman from killing herself and her baby. The only local guy around was the bbq man cooking my chicken. It was a couple minutes of assault until he put down the skewers and got involved. Can't blame him though, he has more to lose than an outsider like me.

    Don't blame the people though, it's hard to risk yourself for 1.4 billion strangers. If their family or friends were involved, they would throw themselves in front of a bus.
     
  23. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    Nor have you let the fact that you are an irrational asiophile interfere with yours.

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    Question: what do you do for a living..? And are you of asian descent..? Do you deny the fact that China is officially one of the worst human rights abusers in the world..?

    It is definitely not true that the USA "wouldn't exist" without China. Up until about 40 years ago (during the Nixon years when China opened its doors to trade) we've been existing independently of China for as long as our country has been around. Without China, we'd just be investing in some other emerging market... like India.

    Historically speaking, the Chinese people have often shown a callous disregard for the suffering of others... including the suffering of children. Girl children in particular were once thought to be almost worthless in China. In many remote Chinese locales, they still are. China is also one of the world's worst animal abusers. For more evidence, go into my history and look up the thread "Who thinks all cultures deserve equal respect?" and be shocked. That's China for ya... the jewel of the Orient.

    If you disagree with this, then how do you account for Search and Destroy's testimony? He lives in China and has witnessed these types of events firsthand. How do you account for China's human rights rankings from organizations such as freedomhouse? Let's hear it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2011
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