2 Sisters axed in Muslim 'honor killing'

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by biblthmp, Sep 11, 2003.

  1. biblthmp Registered Senior Member

    Sisters axed in Muslim 'honor killing'
    Brothers tracked them down in attempt to restore family reputation
    Posted: September 11, 2003
    1:00 a.m. Eastern

    © 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

    Two sisters were hacked to death by their Muslim brothers in Jordan in an "honor killing" that came one day after the country's parliament rejected a bill imposing tougher sentences for the crime.

    The Jordan Times newspaper said the brothers used axes to kill the unidentified sisters, aged 20 and 27, according to a BBC report.

    The brothers, now in detention, admitted they carried out the killing to uphold the "family honor."

    The practice is known in many Muslim communities as a way of applying justice to a woman deemed to have harmed a family's reputation.

    The Times said the 27-year-old sister left home two years ago to marry a man without her family's permission. Three months ago, her 20-year-old sister ran away to join her.

    Jordanian officials said someone tipped off the brothers about where the sisters were living. The men went into their home with axes and hacked them to death.

    "It was a brutal scene," the official said, according to the paper. "One victim's head was nearly cut clean off."

    On Sunday, the Jordanian parliament rejected a bill that would strengthen relevant laws, which currently mete out sentences as light as six months in prison for people guilty of honor killings.

    The Jordanian paper said, officially, 12 women are reported to have been killed this year for reasons of "family honor."
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  3. Robban Registered Senior Member

    man... that is sick

    they dont know shit about honor.

    can any muslim please explain to me the concept of honor
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  5. Psycho-Cannon Home grown and Psycho Registered Senior Member

    I agree that its sick and backwards but its not unique to Muslim culture just as its not a trait of all muslims.
    You get the same kind of attitude of killing for honour in China, Italy, USA, hell even in the UK and Russia.
    The only real difference is this is not recognised by Law in any of the above, they all consider it Murder regardless.
    However in a lot of muslim countries unfortuantly the leadership still recognises this facet of human nature but makes it legal or at least goes lightly on it and that needs to be changed.
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  7. Vortexx Skull & Bones Spokesman Registered Senior Member

    Religion is the best invention since sliced bread, instead of keeping a large police apparatus like secular saddam, you just appoint a few priests and the people start oppressing themselves....

    the only problem is when the rebels play the religious card better than you (osama vs sheiks in sauidi arabia) in that case you need the Religious Police to catch up in this game of crowd control
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2003
  8. justiceusa Registered Senior Member

    Hmm I wonder what the punishment is for having a Barbie doll?
  9. truth Registered Senior Member

    40 lashes on the soles of your feet with a naked blond barbie.
  10. otheadp Banned Banned

    personally, i'd enjoy that kind of punishment

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    i just don't understand these honour killings
    ok fine -- they killed their sisters and now the family honour is restored

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    now they can walk on the street with their chin up, proud of what they'd done.... ?
  11. Xev Registered Senior Member

    No, women in the USA are not routinely killed for marrying without family permission/being raped/showing their ankles.

    I don't have personal knowledge of the UK, Italy, Russia and China, but I'm fairly sure that it's not common there either.

    Now go take lots of barbituates and go for a swim.
  12. Robban Registered Senior Member

    We have had some cases of honor-murder in Sweden too. These (as far as I know) have all been commited by curds.
  13. Xev Registered Senior Member

    Well there you go. I'm sure that there are a few in America, but not commited by Americans - they're more likely commited by immigrants from cultures in which this sort of thing is acceptable.
  14. biblthmp Registered Senior Member

    Apparently you haven't noticed that the Muslim population has grown in all these countries, and so "honor murders" follow.
  15. Xev Registered Senior Member

    Apparently I have:
    -Posted by Xev:
    Still, it is not routine in America.
  16. Psycho-Cannon Home grown and Psycho Registered Senior Member

    Your taking my point completly the wrong way its not so much the context of the killing (women dating someone their family didn't aprove) that i was getting at but the backwards reasoning behind the act.

    The idea that if someone goes against what you see as right or honourable they deserve to die and its your duty to do the dirty act yourself for honour.

    In that context you get plenty of red necks or dads that go out and kill their estranged kids and their boy freinds because they didnt approve or where from a different race etc, you get plenty of people in China and Japan Russia etc that are killed for dishonouring someone or insulting the wrong person.
    In Japan honour was paramount for a long time, if you are preseved to have lost it for any stupid little thing you were expected to kill yourself or be killed.
    The only difference between these countries run by religion and the others is that in countries like the USA and UK etc its against the law and people who commit these crimes are usually made priahs by most of society.
    In the others though they are not against the law in fact they are very much IN the law or at best? treated very lightly.
    Also people who commit the crimes aren't made priahs in fact they are supported and "understood".
    It's the same backwards human mentality you get anywhere in the world unfortunatly its still supported and in the culture in some countries that makes it harder to fight against and more common than in others.
  17. Markx Registered Senior Member

    Very true! It is not the norm in America. Different cultures have different norms. Above problem's major cause is education. People, who commits any kind of killings are simply ignorant and un educated in general. Nowhere in Quran or any other book or religion it says that you can kill your sisters or daughters for honor or does it? It is the draw back of backward culture due to many reasons. Above all those reasons stands the proper education and literacy. Now, the norm for us is something different, we do see some crimes of passion, just a different name of the same kind of killings. Husband killing their wife or the wife running over her husband in front of his mistress. One thing which disturbs me a lot is drowning and killing of children by their mom and dads. I have not seen that many cases any where else in the world. Just some of things we enjoy in our society. We all have our drawbacks. I know for sure that Bible or any other religious book doesn't tell us to become a serial killer or kill our babies or kill just to enjoy the taste of human meat. Sad but true.
  18. Xev Registered Senior Member

    I do not believe that the Koran sanctions this, but the rest of your statement is false - the Bible condones honour killing:

    As Leo Sacher-Masoch put it:

    "How ungallant these Jews are. And their God might choose more becoming expressions when he speaks of the fair sex"

    Wrong, sorry:

    You see this as a bad thing? Personally, I'm glad to live in a country where it is seen as wrong to kill and punishable by death.

    I'm sure you're going to back up this assertion.

    You don't seem to have the slightest idea of what Bushido was about. In any case your point is irrelevent - that one society once thought something acceptable does not give another society the right to murder women right and left.
  19. Psycho-Cannon Home grown and Psycho Registered Senior Member

    That was my point though it is wrong, the problem lies mainly when society's permit it and let it grow instead of punishing it.
    To say it is purely a muslim thing is a bit unfair but yes they are mainly muslim countries at the moment that still allow this practice legally and that needs to be changed.

    In britain not so long ago historicaly speaking it was considered ok if someone insulted you to hand the man a pistol and shoot him.
    In Italy or was it spain they did the same only with rapiers.
    The only difference is the people in power outlawed it and eventually the people who still carried out the acts are seen as backwards and shunned.
    Whats the point of killing someone to defend your honour when everyone else will scorn you for it.
    That needs to be changed in countries that still advocate this backwards mentality.
    Group thinking really, as long as there are the elements in a society or group that advocate this kind of stupidity there will be more that subscribe to the same backwards thinking.
    Making it illegal and punishing those that do it will reduce the numbers and the group thinking gets smaller and hopefully becomes just isolated incidents like it is now in the rest of the world.

    I dont think its a good thing so i'm sorry if you misunderstood my post, i'm not defending honour killings i'm simply wanted to point out the reason it seems so bad in these countries is that it isn't punished and the people that do it aren't made pariahs like they are elsewhere hence it doesnt change instead people get set in this backwards notion and that needs to change but at the end of the day this is still something not unique to Muslims or Muslim countries thats the only point i wanted to make =/

    It's a lot easier to say when i'm at home and have a few more minutes to bash out a post than trying to whack it in on my lunch break as above tbh.

    And i like to think i know a "little" bit about what bushido was about, my post was overly simplistic maybe and i apologise for that but if your going out your way to pick my post to bits a hashed up paragraph won't hold up much =p
    I belive most samurai had Lords? and if the lord was dishounoured by commiting some act they were expected to kill themselves as well? my point was i belive a lot of them did but not before they took their lord with them first.
    It was either that or become ...whatever it was they were called when they wondered the land without master and honour and were as good as scum =/..ronin?

    Correct me if i'm wrong and i'll go do my research.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2003
  20. Ghassan Kanafani Mujahid Registered Senior Member

    Murdering your sister is only an honorable act to a devil .
  21. Riomacleod Registered Senior Member

    To be fair, a lot of that is the insane "old testament" stuff that the New Testament basically wipes out, Xev. I don't know the book or verse, but to paraphrase "Love thy neighbor shall be the whole of the law" (Which of course becomes more and more and more strict as the "apostles" take the ball and run for the oppression end-zone).

    On a side note, I very much like the word "epistles". It's just a fun one to say.
  22. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

    Lots of devils in the Middle East then, aren't there.
  23. Ghassan Kanafani Mujahid Registered Senior Member

    Lots of devils in the Middle East then, aren't there.

    Yes indeed

    Point ?

    Do you wish to draw any compares ?

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