# 2 dimensions into 3 dimensions

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Quantum Quack, May 27, 2017.

1. ### arfa branecall me arfValued Senior Member

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It actually proves what I said. There is no surface.

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3. ### river

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Disagree

In order to have a " dent " in a surface implies a soild surface in the first place .

5. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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I have no idea where you picked this up but it is entirely untrue.

Have a look at weather patterns, ocean currents, mixing chemicals, etc.

Here's a bunch of em. Some are life-based, many are not:

https://www.wired.com/2010/09/fractal-patterns-in-nature/

7. ### DinosaurRational SkepticValued Senior Member

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From River Posts 95, 97, &117
Incorrect: Various objects in nature approximate fractals. Coast lines are one example.

True fractals are mathematical entities which do not appear in nature. Examples are the Mandelbrot Set & graphics generated via use of successive approximations to the solution of cubic equations.

BTW: The graphic generated via successive approximations to the three cube roots of a number (2 are complex) has an interesting property when its various regions are colored using three colors.

The borders between regions are all triple border points like the center of a circle divided into three slices. None are like the linear borders from the center to the circumference.​

8. ### river

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Approximate fractals is not an argument to my point of life fractals .

Fractals , real fractals are from life , the further one looks into life fractals , the repetition continues . The form repeats no matter how small we go . We take the smaller and it will be exactly the same as the larger form .

The further we get into a focus on a coastline the less we can build a dupicate of the FULL coastline.

But in life the focus small or large does does not affect the completeness of the whole .

9. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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Fractals , real fractals are from life ,[/QUOTE]
This is not true. There are all sorts of fractals in nature that are not alive.

And more to the point:

Just as with any real world fractals, this is not true for life. Of course it has a lower limit!!

Just like in life.

Not true.

10. ### Q-reeusValued Senior Member

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river's obsession with 'life fractals' as the only real fractals was dealt with in #96, #98, #100, #103. Not only has he not budged an inch, but subsequently other members go on to basically repeat what I wrote, yet without any reference to above posts i.e. as though bringing it up for the first time. Typical SF pattern. Maybe even a fractal-like pattern.
A fork into pedantic arguing over surfaces are/are not 'really' 2D entities also took off. Despite, apart from the in hindsight unfortunate detour into fractals territory, being briefly but adequately covered in #2. Such are things at SF. Like many threads going on for sometimes 10's of pages, a simple agreement over definitions early on should have avoided such repetitious time wasting. But, to repeat, such is SF.

11. ### DinosaurRational SkepticValued Senior Member

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Quantum Quack Post # 1
My Post #6 (slightly edited)
My above Post pretty much tells the entire tale.

I find it incredible that there are 127 Posts to this thread, most of which I have not read.

Mea culpa for not pointing out that the discussion of fractals is a digression with little or no relevance the question asked in Post 1.

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12. ### river

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You are right Dinosaur , I went off on a tangent that I never should have .

My apologies to all .

13. ### river

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Anyway what 2dimemsional concept can become 3dimensional physical object ?

Assuming that is what QQ goal is ?

14. ### DinosaurRational SkepticValued Senior Member

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Continuing the digression from the initial Post to this Thread

From River Post 125
False. In the world of our senses (or life as you express it), There is a lower limit to fractals at or before the level of a single atom or single molecule.

In the abstract world of mathematics there are fractals with the properties you describe.

There is no lower limit to the fractal nature of these mathematical abstractions.

The Mandelbrot Set is one example of such a fractal.

Other examples can be generated via graphics generated via the mathematics of successive approximations to the nth roots of positive integers​

BTW: Fatou & Julia (both French, I think) laid the foundations for the modern study of fractals prior to the existence of modern computers capable of generating images using computer monitors & printers.

Mandelbrot got more credit than he deserved due to having a computer capable of doing the calculations & displaying images on a monitor or printing them.

15. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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I believe David Bohm called it the enfolding and unfolding of spacetime

As to the fractal properties of spacetime read "causal dynamical triangulation" (CDT)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_dynamical_triangulation