100,000 years old human skull found

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by S.A.M., Jan 24, 2008.

  1. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    An almost complete human skull dating back 80,000 to 100,000 years has been unearthed in central China, state media reported on Wednesday.

    The skull, consisting of 16 pieces, was dug up last month after two years of excavation at a site in Xuchang in Henan province, the China Daily said.

    The pieces were fossilised because they were buried near the mouth of a spring whose water had a high calcium content, the report said.

    The People’s Daily newspaper said the skull was expected to provide “direct evidence” concerning the origins of human beings in east Asia, as very few human fossils dating back to about 100,000 years ago had ever been found outside Africa.

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  3. blobrana Registered Senior Member

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  5. Bells Staff Member

    Interesting indeed.

    I wonder if the sample will be viable.
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  7. kmguru Staff Member

    IMHO, humans were independently evolved in Asia, Europe and Africa. If Butterflies can, why can not Humans?
  8. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

    they wouldn't be able to tell the sex of it would they?
  9. Enmos Registered Senior Member

    They can probably say with some certainty, why ?
  10. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

    I like this dimplomatic part of it:

    The "bones got lost on the way to the smithsonian".

    Google that text in my quotes, and find out how many hits you get.
  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    They might, but may not be conclusive.

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    Male and Female Skull Differences -
    Skull difference between Male and Female as indicated by their letter value on the figure

    A- The male cranial mass is more blocky and massive compared to the females which more rounder and tapers at the top.

    B- The females Supraorbital margin is sharper while the males is rather round and dull.

    C- The Zygomatic bone is more pronounced on the male skull.

    D- The Mandible of a female is more rounded while the male's is squared.

    E- Males have a deeper cranial mass

    F- The supercilary arch is large and pronounced in the male.

    Finding more bones may be more useful.
  12. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

    And Tinanmen Square was a few angry students. This seems eerily similar to the nutcases who claimed that all of classical culture came from Africa, and the Greeks etc. stole it from the Library in Alexandria.

    Is there any other evidence for such claims? I mean, there seems to be an evolutionary record of things that look like humans coming out of Africa, but are there similar things in China?
  13. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

    SAM, do you have G on the list? is it bigger teeth? flatter teeth??
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Its not there, no, but I would presume it would be related to the width of the dental arch. :shrug:

    Or maybe proportionally bigger teeth?
  15. Reiku Banned Banned

    Mmmmm.... very Interesting.
  16. DwayneD.L.Rabon Registered Senior Member


    Really i would not even give life on our planet more than 50,000 years in evoultion, and life in human form i would give even less say about 13,000 years.
    If we look for migration patterns to define a region or the many different regions that may exist to the cultur of humans, we would in end have to look at the motion of the planet over that the time speculated. where in the motions of the planet earth we find that the earth moves in percession 1 to 1.4 degrees per hundred years and the axis tilts relative to that motion, in end 9,000 years ago the north pole faced the sun in 18,000 years the north pole faced the position of the south pole 24,000 years ago the north pole faced deep space ( not including any rotation the earth may have had) at 1.4 degrees per 100 years the farthest we could go back would be 19,280 years with north facing deep space.
    However you put the motion of the planet into your exsplanation the weather becomes a major factor as ice ages begin to cover large regions of earth. humans may start in one region and in 2,300 years about a motion of 23 degrees in change have moved to a completely different location simply because of the weather.

    Most studies in the northern hemisphere define that the north heimisphere was covered in ice at least 10,000 years ago, for certain it is thought that the north americas were nearly covered permanet ice cover clear down to near 32nd latitude, so we have to assume that the south pole was facing the sun or a region near the south pole was facing the sun, In general most of Africa is above the equator and in the northern hemisphere, and the geological has shown that the Sahara Desert was covered in ice sheets. given the exstent of geological record to ice coverage of the world, there really remains very little land for humans to have orginated on or migrated to or from 10,000 years ago.
    It appears that south america might be one of those places where humans might have found some comfort, or perhaps the pacific islands, or South East Asia. I say south east asia as during the ice age periods much of the ocean water line is lower than current ocean water line, mainly becuase the water is stored on the current land mass as ice, And because of that we can exspect to see a larger region of land exsposed in South East Asia mainly the South China Sea.
    Even so this latitude would be only fare weathered, moderate or having highs of only 72 degrees for short periods during the year.
    it seems that the most habital regions would be covered in ocean, antarctica would be ice free, whcih exsplains I guess some of the fossil records found there.

    In end it starts to look like a story about the lost city of atlantis in antarctica, but clearly antarctica is free of ice when the north is covered in ice.

    how the weather changes over 80,000 years to 100,000 years gets difficult, but it is very unlikly that humans were of the same form of life if even existing at those dates, so you can exspect that the dateing meathod is in error.

  17. kmguru Staff Member

    Since we had 3 or 5 Extinction Level Events in the last 750 million years...why we can not have humans in other periods? What prevents that?
  18. DwayneD.L.Rabon Registered Senior Member

    Well mainly because we have chemical changes as a result of nuclear decay and the event of magnetic pole reversals, that change planetary oreintation in the solar system and therefore genetic determination of biological form.

    For example there are actually four isotpes of Carbon - Carbon11, Carbon12,Carbon13 and Carbon 14 only two of them are naturally occuring in nature (12 and 13) which suggest at least 4 events in earth history where local interstellar events have resulted in the nuclear decay effecting Carbon a atomic element that humans are dependant on. These types of events occur in ranges of 5,000 to 10,000 years, but if lucky could go as long as 50,000 years or longer at least for events that effect atoms that life is dependant upon, but it seems highly unlikly that we would get that far before a change in atomic chemistry occurs.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2008
  19. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Not the same species. We have plenty of evidence of other closely related hominids arising in other regions, but for Homo sapiens itself to evolve identically in two different places is impossible beyond a reasonable doubt. I haven't seen a detailed enough article on this skull yet. Have they--or can they--positively identify it as H. sapiens?

    A far more likely explanation is that the diaspora out of Africa ca. 70,000BCE was not the first time humans had walked out of Africa, but merely the first time they successfully established separate populations of our species on other continents.

    Humans are curious and love to explore. The most famous example of this phenomenon is Kennewick Man, a perfect skeleton of an obviously European human found buried in Washington state, U.S.A.--nine thousand years ago. Some adventurous fellow actually walked or sailed to North America eight thousand years before Leif Ericsson and made it all the way to the Pacific coast. But he didn't establish a colony and his DNA is not found in modern Indians, so he could easily have remained forgotten.

    For that matter, the Vikings sailed here several centuries before Columbus and with modern archeological and anthropological techniques we now know that they actually did establish a colony and apparently eventually assimilated with the Indians and left some traces of DNA. This happened in historical time yet the story was virtually forgotten.

    They keep finding evidence of human camps in the New World from thousands of years before the first wave of migrants came over from Siberia and successfully established a population that covered two continents.

    Clearly, being able to make your way to an undiscovered place is not enough to become the patriarch of a new people. Small groups can easily die off within a single generation, in an unfamiliar environment. If some adventurous Africans found their way to China 80,000 years ago, they did not establish a beachhead for human settlement. Perhaps a small tribe survived and was assimilated when the diaspora reached them.
    The laws of probability. As I noted above, it is impossible beyond a reasonable doubt that the same species will evolve independently in two different times and/or places. If you just mean humanlike creatures of different ancestry, that's a different question.
  20. kmguru Staff Member

    Then, let us go back some more...can we have the ancestors of humans travel to different parts of the world - here we are talking about Africa, Europe and Asia connected by the land mass then, that points to humans with minor variations?

    If we are talking about Africans becoming Chinese in 40,000 years then why can not we see major differences in the last 7000 years?

    It is logically difficult to grasp that an African becomes a Chinese in Asia and yet the same African did not change in South Africa over the last 40,000 years.
  21. DwayneD.L.Rabon Registered Senior Member

    Kmguru, here is a map of dinosaur egg nest around the world, as you can see the greatest number are found in China and in the state of Montana (U.S.A.), a increaseing number have been found in South America.

    Humans are most likly the decendants of one these groups dinosaurs, certainly if we say that human history goes back to a time greater than 20,000 years, and so with the map you can define a point that may be the orgins of human gestation. from whichh they then migrated.

    The world has tilted 75 to 90 degrees in the last 5,000 years, given the motion of percession for the world. which has changed climate and habital zones. if you use the motion of percession change (1 to 1.4 degrees per 100 years) you can begin to see that dinosaurs or humans had to move to remain comfortable and to hatch or birth their young. Humans have been speculated as being a water born, as humans give live birth and are gestated in the a water filled sack during embryotic stage.
    It is also thought that the pryamids where built 5,000 years ago, even so if you say that the skull found was 80,000 years old then the earth has move 800 degrees from its current postion, that means the earth has done two 360 degree turns and some since the time the skull came out of the womb, such a scale of motion would include several iceages, a magnetic pole reversal an numerous geological changes to the face of the earth.

    Lastly i want to say that is seems like china,south america or north america are the locations mostly likly for human orgins. perhaps they left from north america as the ice age began and traveled to South America and China where they evovled in to modern humans, and as the ice age consumed the northern hemisphere they moved more south ward entering places such as Africa.

    I find nearly impossible for humans to have a existance in currnet human form at time frames greater than 20,000 years. be it skulls in africa, china, or any where else.

    Of coruse there is always the idea that humans came from venus.


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  22. kmguru Staff Member

    Actually, according to the folklore in India, Humans came from the Mizar star system, with Chinese belonging to one planet and Aryans to the other....no mention of Africans...

    May be we are missing the Atlanteans in the mix....

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  23. Dougal Registered Member

    Research of human mitochondrial DNA indicates there was a genetic bottleneck for our species about 150,000 years ago and the entire species is descended from the few individuals that made it through that evolutionary bottleneck. It's also highly probably that the species originated in Africa as that's where the oldest hominid fossils are found.

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