"thay have a voice come january." They have a voice right now. They're shooting at you. Perhaps your just not listening. Dee Cee
Deecee, I could have sworn you were the guy who told me months ago that you shouldn't freak out because of a few guys shooting at people (as a reason against the invasion). The terrorists are shooting at the cops, and the cops are shooting back. I'd guess the majority of Iraqis just want the violence to end.
BTW Saddam Saddam your such a bad man.... Lest we forget I guess he was ok as long as he did what he was told eh? Shame he drifted off message. If he'd of kept on side I'm sure he'd still be in power. Y'know raping, killing torturing and stuff. Who are y'all trying to kid. Dee Cee
"I'd guess the majority of Iraqis just want the violence to end. " I'm sure they do. Stands to reason. You'd think they'd be used to not getting what they want by now. DeeCee
There is no words for all those innocent people killed not only by Saddam's troops but also by the Americans. I remember reading books that were written by vietnam and other American war veterans. I remembered to read how they enjoyed to see their enemies suffer, children, women and other innocents that were trying to defend their families from sick Americans. How they raped young girls, women. How they murdered entire villages for fun, and those that opposed were left behind. That is the shocking reality of American war.
ok good point...but hold on here...yes the yankies did commit theses vile crimes...in Veitnam...im sure some did perform these acts of rape...and wiping out of intire villages....that fact is we need to understand what drives a person/or persons to commit these unthinkable acts...times have change since then...not for all states....but i still believe the amercians and the uk have done the right thing...in ridding saddam and his sons....somebody had to do it...his evil mind would have contiued with the things that were going on in that country...at last hopefully still has come to end for iraq. but then when the amerciaians/uk leave...we all know what will lead next....and thats religon...religon is the root of all wars.having to decide who shares power?tricky stuff
Imagine yourself and all your details...your secrets...your personality and then realise that these people are like you. They love their children, and only want to live a peaceful life. Then some American squad comes by and decides to rape your sweet little daughter right before your face and then shoot her to leave her dieing, suffering in her own pool of blood. Then, your son comes running in screaming daaaaad!!! And just before he can reach you, an American stabs him with a knife and he falls to the ground while the Americans leave him dieing there... Then burn your village with all it's inhabitants... and they keep you alive just so you can see it all happen... To see the people die with which you shared 30 years of your life... and after that they will take you to a high tree and hang you. I think that the suffering of these people in Iraq is really beyond any of your understandings.
Baghdad -- Bush administration officials have drawn a consistent picture of the insurgents they have been fighting in the past 17 months of occupation: religious extremists, "dead-enders" associated with Saddam Hussein and foreign terrorists slipping across the country's porous borders. But a wide range of interviews with Iraqis and U.S. officials here paints a starkly different portrait -- a growing, intensely nationalist resistance determined to remove U.S. forces and their Iraqi allies. "Rather than vilifying those who don't like us and rather than simplistic rhetoric, shouldn't we be trying to understand what's going on, what many Iraqis are thinking and try to address their concerns?" said an American adviser in Baghdad, speaking on condition of anonymity. "Of course there are some terrible elements -- there are, clearly, some al Qaeda adherents and some who use terrorist methods as well as some garden- variety criminal elements -- but I just don't think it's good to categorize them all as 'terrorists.' " Iraqi critics say U.S. failure to distinguish between different elements of the resistance has hampered its ability to secure the peace. "One of the basic mistakes the coalition made was misdescribing those who had decided to take up arms against the coalition and now the current interim Iraqi government," says Sharif Ali bin Hussein, heir to Iraq's deposed king and head of Iraq's main monarchist party. "The resistance is basically from groups that were marginalized and disenfranchised by the political process in Iraq when the United States decided to impose its exile friends from abroad without giving a role to ordinary Iraqis after liberation," he said. Continued: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/10/26/MNG659G46T1.DTL&type=printable
Like I said if the US uses that stupid...already meaningless term anymore "terrorist". The US will cloud her own judgment so much (as many "people" in this thread have shown so well) that she will lose in Iraq.
"Then burn your village with all it's inhabitants... and they keep you alive just so you can see it all happen... To see the people die with which you shared 30 years of your life... and after that they will take you to a high tree and hang you. I think that the suffering of these people in Iraq is really beyond any of your understandings", Someguy Are you privy to some information that the rest of us are not in order to announce this scenario? If not, then please do not taint this thread with such emotional drivel. Its a shame that so many members are attempting to criminalize the soldiers fighting in Iraq on factless nonsense.
Well this kind of thing happened in Vietnam. Such thing probably doesn't happen in Iraq but... those 100000 people are alot of women and children too... And I bet alot of them were innocent.
"100000 people are alot of women and children too", Someguy Read my post earlier in the thread that details the man who came up with that figure. He described his own work as sloppy. This number is simply not true.
But towards be it as it may, the fact that the number approaches 100,000 indicates that at least that many died.
Or you could actually listen to someone who has been to Iraq first hand and ask them what happened. It turns out that when our forces first moved into Iraq they were attacked by every single civilian there. Children would run up and shoot at tanks point blank range so that the bullets would bounce back and kill them. Maniacs would run naked around the street with RPGs, shooting at their own people and U.S. Forces alike. Iraqis broke into museums and burned their own history to the ground. Everyday, IEDs kill 100s of people for no reason but to inflict suffering on infidels. What we are facing is an enemy so brainwashed by religion that they lack even the slightest concern for human life whatsoever. Maybe you should think twice before you cry about these 'innocents'. But I'm only in the Army, don't listen to me.
Or you could actually listen to someone who has been to Iraq first hand and ask them what happened What street did you live on? You have an apartment or was it a house you lived in? Which of the local stores did you shop at? Spend much time relaxing in the coffee shops with the locals after work? What we are facing is an enemy so brainwashed by religion that they lack even the slightest concern for human life whatsoever. So why are you trying to 'liberate' them? Perhaps you should have left them alone. But I'm only in the Army, don't listen to me. You have my sympathies. Dee Cee
"But towards be it as it may, the fact that the number approaches 100,000 indicates that at least that many died.", Undecided I am trying to understand the logic in this. For one, the number is not approaching 100k. Every other survey I have seen, has put the number around 15-20K, a more realistic number considering the tactics the U.S. forces are using. The Doctors study is basically a house to house survey that involves only 1000 different locations. Hardly scientific and not a good representation of the country on the whole. Iraqis, many of whom are against the occupation, would be more than happy to list dead who never existed. More accurate accounts take hospital records, and then use body counts and surveys to list the dead who may have not made it to morgues or hospitals. And to repeat one last time, the man described his OWN study in Africa as shoddy, and that involved over twice as many households. Why would you give this study any consideration at all knowing these key facts?
