10 rules for true believers to follow

Discussion in 'UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters' started by billvon, Jan 13, 2017.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Not having much luck convincing other people that you've seen UFO's? Having trouble convincing those loser, mundane "realists" that we are regularly being visited by space aliens? Fear not. True believers can follow this simple list of rules to use when trying to prove your latest ambiguous sighting is, in fact, evidence that space aliens are regularly visiting us. In your face, realists!

    1) Always introduce new sightings with as much drama as possible, preferably in the context of some realist denying it. This "rallies the troops" and gets true believers feeling that they are being oppressed.

    2) Obscure the meanings of words. Claim that UFO's are alien ships; then, when a UFO is proven to not be an alien ship, claim that of course you knew that; UFO just means "unidentified." Duh. That puts the "realists" on the defensive right off the bat.

    3) Pre-emptive attacks! Remember, a good offense is often the best defense. If you are regularly called a troll for your attempts to be divisive and irrational, accuse them of being trolls FIRST. That way, when they call you a troll later, you can say "I said it first."

    4) Be nimble. If presented with weak evidence that your latest fave UFO is a fake, then be ready with your lists of claims. If presented with strong evidence, be ready to abandon that argument and immediately post a claim about a new object, in hopes no one will notice in all the turmoil.

    5) Claim that the absence of evidence is, itself, evidence. If you find a blurry photo of a light in the sky from 1960, post an assertion that it is a UFO - and if it wasn't, why hasn't anyone debunked it after 50 years? And if there is evidence debunking it, demand to know where the evidence PROVING it went. If there's no evidence proving it - who removed it? Government coverup, anyone?

    6) Remember that once news media coverage leads the public to believe that UFOs may be in the vicinity, there are numerous natural and man-made objects which, especially when seen at night, can take on unusual characteristics in the minds of hopeful viewers. Capitalize on this; search local papers, forums and tweets to see if anything unusual pops up. If it does - more 'evidence!'

    7) Everyone wants to be famous. If you communicate with someone who thinks they have seen a UFO, encourage them to embellish the story, explaining that this will get them on TV - or at least be more popular on-line.

    8) If you are losing an argument, make sure to play it off as a big joke. Use LOL! LOL! a lot to prove that you're not really that serious about this argument, unlike your other bulletproof arguments.

    9) Remember that people cannot accurately determine distances or sizes of aerial objects. Use this to your advantage; claim that even when a pilot (for example) identifies the UFO as an unusual aircraft like an Osprey, it could still be the size of the Hindenburg, since he cannot estimate the size accurately. And Ospreys aren't the size of the Hindenburg; therefore, it must be a UFO. QED.

    10) Personality is king. Most UFO sightings are short on physical evidence, but often you can link the sighting to a famous, beloved personality. Then you can link the two - "oh, so you think the Pope is an immoral liar!" If they were once a scientist, pilot or other expert, even better - you can claim immediate expert cred. (Warning - this can backfire if one of the people reading is one of those experts, so use sparingly!)

    11) (Bonus rule!) If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit - lots of it. Post dozens of sightings and claim that they can't all be "explainable." Use new terms and reference lots of woo - then demand that realists debunk every single bit of woo you post before you will listen to them. Or make up terms, and if the realists ask them what your term "UFologism" means, say "well, if you are that ignorant, how can you claim to know what's going on with UFO's?" Remember, the more the better here - get ready to Gish Gallop!

    By using the above list, you'll be able to post reams of material about the "reality" of UFO's, and avoid the numerous (and sometimes uncomfortable) questions from realists. So get posting, and don't let the realists win!
     
    RADII, exchemist, James R and 4 others like this.
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  3. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    F%$#@&% brilliant!

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  5. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    When have I seen a UFO?

    Where did I claim we are regularly being visited by space aliens?

    This list must've taken you hours to compose. I guess you have a lot invested in ufos not existing. God knows we wouldn't want your little world rocked by the unexplained. What happens if they exist? Does time stop and brains turn inside out? Will your world of sciency facts suddenly crumble into dust? How sad..

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    IOW, don't overwhelm us with all the hundreds of compelling accounts of ufos thruout history.
    Really?

    Get on your horse and ride cowboy!

    http://www.ufoevidence.org/Cases/CaseView.asp?section=multiplewitnesses
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017
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  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I didn't actually see your name mentioned. You made that mistake once before MR, jumping into a thread when you thought that people were taking a pot shot at your mystic weirdness.
    Yet you deem it OK for you to have your rather regular pot shots at science.

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    [there's that same pot again, calling the Kettle black!

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    ]
    Obviously you see the cap fitting once again.....

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    Xelasnave.1947 likes this.
  8. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    You know who he's posting to? Tell us then..


    "Having trouble convincing those loser, mundane "realists""

    That's who he's posting to. Magical Realist...
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017
  9. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    The same people that I was posting to here......
    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/are-you-a-quack.157899/

    Obviously again, it's a case of 'if the cap fits wear it" which you have grabbed with the utmost glee.
    I suppose if I wasn't so lazy, I could also go through some of your threads, criticising science and the scientific method, that others could construe were addressed to those that adhere to the scientific method and science in general.
    How many do you believe we would find MR?

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  10. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    So you admit billvon was posting to me then?
     
  11. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I actually think you have just revealed to all and sundry another of your dishonest, meanings to what other people say and how perfectly the cap fits.

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  12. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    4th lie in this thread by Paddoboy. That billvon wasn't talking to me. Are you going for the record?
     
  13. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Well Billvon uses the word "realist" where one could use "debunker".
    I did not connect" realist" with you given its context.
    But you seek the lime light and it is now all about you.
    Alex
     
  14. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Right..mundane "realist" wasn't a reference to my online name. What other bullshit do you convince yourself of? Oh right. Flocks of birds that look like ufos. Seen any more lately?
     
  15. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe Billvon was having a go at you so it would make sence to ask him rather than argue with others.
    Funny you should ask about the birds... Yes I have and they can look very strange if around Sun set with the light reflecting in a particular fashion.
    Anyways I have seen enough to put down all UFO sightings to birds and conclude that all the alarm surrounding ufos and certain beliefs that ufos are alien space craft to be entirely unfounded.
    Unfortunately eye witness accounts are always wrong.
    All sightings on radar are clearly due to technical problems.
    Why folk continue to promote ufos is beyond explanation other than they experience mental problems that manifest delussions and visual halucination.
    If the situation were otherwise there would be evidence of ufos and of course there is no evidence.
    And I am being serious so no hint otherwise via a lol.
    Alex
     
  16. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Lie??

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    I don't lie intentionally MR, and your own record re lying is here for all to see.... Now by your own hand, you have shown the cap fits with relation to the OP, and at the same time, apparently blown another gasket...take a Disprin young fella and have a good lay down.

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  17. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks for answering that question:

    What other bullshit do you convince yourself of?
     
  18. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    You are most welcome.
    You miss my point.
    I do not entertain, as you put it, bullshit other than following threads in this section and in the religious sections.
    And I admit threads on religion and ufos are entertaining even though they deal with bullshit.
    I am not convinced of any proposition actually.
    I work on the basis that if a human presents a proposition it could be wrong.
    I do accept irrefuttable evidence but only on the basis there is a still a fair chance it could be wrong.
    People have a bad habit of fooling themselves and go on to try and fool others.
    I try not to fool myself and not to fool others.
    Maybe the op makes you feel sensative and if it does perhaps ask why?
    What parts of it upset you?
    What parts do you think are simply wrong?
    Alex
     
  19. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    You can quit answering that question now. I think I got my answer.
     
  20. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I did not know if he was posting to anyone, let alone who.

    Not until I started reading. And then it started sounding awfully familiar.
     
  21. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    Is that really the issue? I think that the issue that generates most of the heat is how to interpret unusual sightings that can't be immediately identified.

    "Realists" isn't the right word. 'Realists' suggests people whose thinking is in accordance with the facts, which in turn assumes that they must already know the facts. I'm not convinced that they always do. "Skeptics" is even worse in the circumstances, since people with faith that they already know all the facts are anything but skeptics.

    In real life, the meaning of the word 'ufo' is ambiguous. It originated in the 1940's among defense sky-watchers who watched the skies for signs of enemy air attack. 'Unidentified flying object' meant exactly that, with the suggestion leaning towards 'possibly hostile'. Even today, many people (myself among them) use 'ufo' in a similar way, to refer to unusual sightings in the sky that haven't yet been identified. But as the ufo-myth became more established, the word 'ufo' gradually came in many minds to mean something like 'anomalous sighting with an extra-mundane cause'. And many people went even further and interpreted 'extra-mundane cause' as extraterrestrial vehicles. So it should be obvious to anyone with an IQ above room temperature that there's a whole spectrum of related meanings out there.

    Since I don't think that anyone wants to argue that nobody ever sees things in the sky that they can't identify, denying the reality of ufos in that weakest sense is obviously foolish. The stronger assertion that ufos are alien spaceships is excessively speculative and in my opinion, largely unconvincing. That leaves us with a residual class of sighting reports of the 'I don't know what that is' sort.

    Having said that, the pseudo-"skeptical" argument that all things seen in the sky must necessarily have mundane explanations, and that it's simply stupid to ever think otherwise, sounds to me like an expression of a pre-existing metaphysical faith. It's no less a leap-of-faith than the opposing view that they must be alien spaceships.

    If somebody can merely speculate that a particular ufo report just might conceivably have a mundane explanation, they often conclude that it in fact does. Some go even further and suggest that those kind of speculations in a particular case somehow justify the conclusion that all ufo reports must necessarily have mundane explanations. They just ignore all the logical defects in that line of argument.

    And everyone wants to believe they already have their worldview nailed-down, that they already know all the most important facts about the universe around them. I'm sure that paleolithic people felt the same way, gathered around their camp-fires with the stars in the sky above them. Recognizing that there might be things out there that they don't understand and might not even be aware of is scary. People fight emotionally against that idea. It's probably one of the things that generated the creation of religious myth. And I think that's what motivates a lot of the pseudo-"skepticism" out there and what motivates the scientism that's so rampant on boards like this one.

    If the sighting is unidentified, then it IS a ufo in the weak sense of 'unidentified flying object'. The suggestion that the sighting was an aircraft, especially a particular kind of aircraft, are additional claims that requires additional evidence. Merely speculating that the sighting might have been an Osprey isn't sufficient explanation for the sighting. Of course, suggesting that the sighting is an alien spaceship is much more of a leap and even less plausible. Intellectually, the best course in many cases is to admit that we still don't really know what best accounts for them.

    And there's the same unjustified assumption that paleolithic men probably shared as they told their stories and propounded their myths around their camp-fires. It's the same assumption that humans have probably made at all times in their existence, that they are the "realists", they they have already figured out reality, that they know all of its relevant principles and what happens around them doesn't hold any more surprises in store. (Or if it does, the surprises will come from familiar directions.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017
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  22. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Typically what I look for in a ufo account are the things that rule out mundane objects right away. Does it fly fast? Then it's not a balloon, the planet Venus, the moon, or a cloud. Does it hover and make no sound? Then its not a conventional craft. How big is it? Not a drone. Is it shaped like a disc or a triangle? Not a conventional craft. Does the sighting last for more than 10 seconds? Then it's not a meteor or ball lightning. Did more than one person see it? Then it wasn't a hallucination. What are the luminary and structural characteristics? Does it have windows? Does it appear to change shape? Does it shoot a beam of light out of itself? Do smaller objects come out of it or merge with it? Eventually I can arrive at this conclusion: we are dealing with an unknown anomaly known as a UFO and which shows similar or the same characteristics in thousands of other sightings thruout history. I do not claim it is an alien spacecraft. I only say it is an otherworldly craft or probe of some sort that does not match anything manmade or natural.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017
  23. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    The issue is simple. Claiming Alien visitations/time travellers/Inter-dimensional beings are really extraordinary claims. The simple fact though is that as of today, we have no extraordinary evidence to support any of those supposed sightings, and that's all people such as myself are asking.
    Agreed, firstly obviously with the highlighted part by me, and that such things to most minds mean "unworldly"
    That of course does not mean that it is unworldly...In essence it means it is unidentified.
    Let me add here that despite the claims in MR's posts, no one can ever be sure they have ruled out all earthly mundane or natural causes...particularly the likes of MR.
    There are literally thousands of ways that weather and meteorological disturbances can cause weird shapes, visions illusions etc, and we are not yet covering other possibilities like military aircraft or weird shaped balloons etc.
    MR not so long ago, even denied that metallic weather balloons even existed in the fifties and sixties

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    He was wrong of course.
    And that is all anyone is saying! In other words a UFO as defined by the first letter.
    It's a UFO...It still maybe [despite any denial by MR] a weather balloon

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    a secret military aircraft, weather or meteorological anomaly [of which plenty of photos have already been posted] illusion, mirage, Alien, time traveller, inter dimensional being. We don't know...It's a UFO, at least for a small percentage of sightings that are unexplained.

    Most scientists accept that ETL probably exists elsewhere in the Universe.
    It's even possible that Earth may have been visited by some.
    I would suggest to you that most all of those same scientists [including me] would dearly love for the concrete evidence confirming those beliefs before any of them kick the bucket!
    At this time though we have no firm evidence of either, sadly.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017

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