“The Hidden Evolution”

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by bpathos, Mar 19, 2011.

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  1. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    Hundreds of years of science are responsible for you being able to type on your computer that you don't care about science - ironic, no?

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  3. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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  5. mrsmart Registered Member

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    hundreds of years of science and a computer is your answer i dont need a computer

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  7. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    What makes life unique is that is uses energy to lower entropy and increase its energy content (growth). Since this moves in opposite direction of the universal flow of energy and entropy, life set up two potentials that will need to reverse.

    As a way to visualize, say we had a fountain that pumped water upward. This will take energy. It will not happen spontaneously, since the water prefers to remain at lowest gravitational potential.

    Since the water is being pumped in the opposite direction of gravity, there is a cause and effect potential to go back downward. This potential will increase the higher we pump the water. We can use the energy within this descending water to drive water wheels. This wil increase the entropy since some of the energy will be irreversibly lost by the water wheels.

    If we shut off the pump, we will take away all the potential energy. This removes the cascade of water, which drives the water wheels, resulting in an inanimate tower of wheels near a quiet pond. The fountain comes to life only after we sets the initial water potentials.

    The modern animal cell's main pump, for the fountain analogy, are the sodium/potassium pumps. These will create potentials within energy and entropy. Since the universe prefers lower energy and higher entropy, the energy/entropy potential created by the cationic pumps will need to descend in potential. This is used by the cell to drive all types of analogies to the water wheels. Evolution makes the pumping action and the descent of the potentials, more efficient as time does on.

    The neuron has the highest membrane potential of the cells in the human body. These cells pump the highest in terms of the energy/entropy potential. This allows the descending potential cascade that is called consciousness. The mind, in turn, follows the schema.
     
  8. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    This is pure BS.
     
  9. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    So you then do not need cars, planes, basically all mechanical transportation. No electricity, no phones - effectively you need to live as an Amish.

    Which is fine and not a bad way to live at all. So I guess we won't be hearing from you again.

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  10. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    I noticed Wellwisher never responds (that I know of). He just injudiciously applies his misunderstanding of entropy to just about everthing.:shrug:
     
  11. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

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    Nah, no Ron Hubbard stuff. I put it in another thread:

    http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2827616&postcount=93
     
  12. mrsmart Registered Member

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    i do not need a computer i stay away from texting and i certainly dont watch tv i do not need them sort of things or gadgets as some will call

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  13. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    Well, unless you are living in a in some cave subsiting in a stone age lifestyle then you have to thank science for your existence.

    Sorry.:shrug:
     
  14. Believe Happy medium Valued Senior Member

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    Your comments indicated that you missed the point entirely.
     
  15. Believe Happy medium Valued Senior Member

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    Interesting thought! I don't really think that we are but the comparison is definitely there!
     
  16. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    It is hard to repond to criticism like "this is pure BS" since that logic is beyond reproof.

    I prefer to define entropy in terms of increased degrees of freedom, which amounts to the same thing as the amount of information, needed to the specify the exact physical state of a system. Degrees of freedom is easier to apply.

    A pure diamond can be specified with a tetrahedral crystal lattice of carbon atoms. A defect in the diamond increases the amount of information needed to specify that diamond; defect will increase system entropy. The defect provides an additional degree of freedom relative to the perfect lattice. Lost heat in an machine requires additional information to define the system; where the frig is the energy going? Trippy is needs to learn about entropy before organizing his eloquent criticisms.

    The consensus thinking often points to cellular metabolism as the smoking gun of life increasing entropy. This is partially true, because it does increase entropy. However, their cause and effect is backwards, because the loss of entropy at the membrane is setting the stage for this entropy.

    One way to understand this to consider a candle. If we light the candle, the entropy will increase as reactants move to products. There is more information being created. If I was to tweak the O2 supply, I can regulate the flame and therefore control the rate at which the entropy is being expressed by the candle.

    At 100% O2, we will get the strongest flame and therefore the fastest conversion of entropy. But at 10% O2, the flame will die down, such that the rate of entropy increase will decline. By simply controlling the reactants which is O2 in this case, and/or the products such as CO2, I can control the entropy rate being defined by the flame.

    In the case of the cell, the lowering of cationic entropy, using ATP energy, (moves these two cations from a random aqueous solution into a segregated order; less information needed to define the system). We set up a potential. This potential, via transport enzymes, controls the flow of materials into and out of the cell. This will tweak the metabolic entropy.

    If we compare the combustion of our candle, with the metabolic combustion at the mitichondria, one thing you should notice is, unlike the candle which is making 100% irretreviable energy (maximum entropy), If we use a mitochnodria efficiency of 85%, only 15% as much entropy as the candle is being generated as irretreviable heat. There is 85% retreivable energy as ATP. The low entropy boundary condition impacts the internal entropy of the cell causing it to fall. This is reflected in increasing metabolic and enzymatic efficiencies.

    Relative to the fountain example, cascading water is not just falling downward, but is also splashing upward. The cationic pumping sets the conditions for the internal entropy to decrease. This is reflected by advancing efficiencies. Selective advantage is based on efficiency, which was Darwins way of saying the same thing.
     
  17. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    No it doesn't.

    Just because you prefer your "definition" doesn't make it correct. Or worthwhile.

    And blah blah blah.
     
  18. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    A cell is not a closed system, you're not considering all sources and sinks.

    QED. Bullshit.

    Trippy has studied Entropy both as a chemist and as a physicist, hence my BS meter reaching critical levels.
     
  19. Pineal Banned Banned

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    Though if ya kill a person, their cells die, but one 'cell' of this superorganism could live on even if all the other 'cells' died. There is no top down control either. Or at least nothing on the order of, say, the neuroendocrine system.
     
  20. Sparkofbliss Registered Senior Member

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    Evolution means integrating tiny parts and becoming large one.Grosser becoming finer.Basic force underlying is to become united with infinite one.
     
  21. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    No you don't.

    jan.
     
  22. mrsmart Registered Member

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    care to elaborate a little more as you seem to be on the right track

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  23. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    I think what you are talking about is called cultural evolution. It is indeed accelerating far more rapidly than the human body can adapt to it. There might also be some actual evolution following as a result. Being able to process information effectively could lead to greater reproductive success, seeing as how computer geeks are so good at winning over the ladies. I kid. But maybe the rise in autism does have something to do with it.
     
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