“Existence precedes Essence.” or "essence precedes existence"

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by sargentlard, Aug 7, 2003.

  1. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

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    Do you agree with this Sartrean belief?

    or do you favor the idea of Holbach more?


    It would seem both make sense in certain situations.

    Which one do you agree with and why?
     
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  3. Pete It's not rocket surgery Moderator

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    I suggest that neither precedes the other.
    There is no essence without existence, nor existence without essence.
     
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  5. Pete It's not rocket surgery Moderator

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    Perhaps, but not neccesarily. They could be separate, but codependant.
     
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  7. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

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    There is example on this. Book and the paper it was printed on. Before the book could take form paper had to be made, cut from trees, formulated into the right format ideal for printing the book. This example is very opposite of the solipsism ideology.
     
  8. Pete It's not rocket surgery Moderator

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    Oh... I think I see now.
    So in that case, the essence of a construction is the physical raw materials, which exist before the construction itself?
     
  9. Voltaire Registered Senior Member

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    i agree with your statement. at first i believed essence came first but maybe they both came at the same time and like you said, they are codependant.
     
  10. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

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    Oh come on.....no more takers.....
     
  11. Voltaire Registered Senior Member

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    well, that is all that is to it.
     
  12. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    You're misunderstanding Sartre. His point is that the being in-itself creates its own being in the world. Our choices, to grotesquely simplify matters, make us who we are.
     
  13. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    What do you mean by 'essence'? It seems impossible to discuss this without knowing exactly what you mean by essence. Does it have some sort of standard definition in philosophy that I'm not aware of?
     
  14. Canute Registered Senior Member

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    I think that 'essence' in this context can be taken to mean whatever property is essential to a thing in order for it to be that thing. Thus philosophers distinguish between what is essential to being a thing and what is non-essential. (To be a human being one must have a human brain, but you might be any height or colour).

    The 'essence' of a thing is therefore the miminum set of attributes necessary for the thing to be that thing.

    However this seems a spurious notion of 'essential' to me since if a thing is specified completely then ALL of its properties and attributes are essential and there is nothing that is non-essential to being that thing.

    Because of this I cannot see the sense in the original question.
     
  15. wayne_92587 Registered Senior Member

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    Before a Reality can exist it must have the potentiality to exist, in essence it must exist before it exists.

    Mere animals are born completely fulfilled, developed, absolute, without potential, without an essence of Reality.

    Man is born flawed, incomplete, undeveloped.

    Man is born with an Essence, the potentiality of which is Boundless, without Dimension, form, shape, definition.

    Due to the Essence of Man’s Reality of BE-ing the potentiality of Man’s Reality is Infinite.

    Essence although it exists is not Three dimensional, is not a
    Material, Physical, Reality.

    Think of Man’s essence, Spiritual Reality, as Dark Matter, a Reality that is not readily apparent to the senses of the Flesh, Call it a Sixth Sense.

    The Consciousness of the Flesh, Man’s Mortal, Animal, Soul, the Material, Physical, BE-ing is sensitive to the Material World of Reality.

    Man Sixth Sense, Essence, Immortal Soul, Spirit, is sensitive to, aware, conscious of, Realities that exist beyond, above, before, the Material World of Reality, Reality that exists only in Essence.

    Man is Both Material and Immaterial, Conscious of the Material World of Reality and of Realities that exist, beyond, only as the potentiality of Reality, Reality that exists only in Essence.

    This essence of Man, this Freedom of Spirit is the cause of his Down Fall, has caused man to loose touch with Reality.

    Man not only has knowledge of what is, he also has knowledge of what was and what will, could, should, be a Reality.

    Man becomes mesmerize by the essence of his BE-ing which is sensitive to the potentiality of Reality of what was, will, could, should, be causing Man to Lose touch with the Reality of what is, the Objective World of Reality.

    Man’s World of Reality becomes a World of Imagined, En-Graven, subjective notions, Images, of Reality, a World of Illusion, Deception, Lies.

    Man is a duality, he and she, have two sides, one, Mortal, Material, Physical and one Immaterial, Spiritual, an Immortal Soul, an essence of Reality, Non-material, Non-physical, Non-Masculine, Feminine.

    Femininity and Masculinity are misnomers, their True Identity is that of Adam and Eve, the Mortal Soul, the Consciousness of the Flesh and Eve, the Immortal Soul, which if not off on a tangent
    is in touch with both the Material, objective World of Reality, and the Immaterial, the Essence, the potentiality of Reality as it exists beyond the Material World of Reality.

    The Mortal Soul is that part of our BE-ing that is Sensible.
    The Immortal Soul is that part of our BE-ing that is Rational.

    Man is a Continuum Two that are One, if the One Becomes Two,
    a Duality, gets to smart for her own britches, Duplicitous, she becomes irrational.

    If Man’s Essence becomes a separate Entity, losing Touch with the Material World of Reality, Man’s Essence, Spirit becomes Malicious, Evil, Man becomes a Space Cadet, a raving lunatic.


    Born Flawed, incomplete the Mere essence of the Potential of his Reality she is Free to Create the Reality of his BE-ing.

    However before Man can create the Reality of his own BE-ing she must be set Free to do as he Will.


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  16. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    This would seem to imply that 'essence' is merely a collection of arbitrarily selected qualities.
     
  17. Canute Registered Senior Member

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    Epistemologically speaking it seems to be just that, with essence being just what we consider essential in order for something to belong in a category. (Four legs are essential for a thing to be a 'quadraped', physical extension is necessary for something to 'exist' scientifically etc).

    However I suppose the ultimate goal is to figure out what is essential to existence and what is not.

    The term 'essence' doesn't seem to mean very much in objective terms. Does anyone here have a meaningful definition?
     
  18. wayne_92587 Registered Senior Member

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    es·sence 1. the basic, real, and invariable nature of a thing or its significant individual feature or features: Freedom is the very essence of our democracy.
    2. a substance obtained from a plant, drug, or the like, by distillation, infusion, etc., and containing its characteristic properties in concentrated form.
    3. an alcoholic solution of an essential oil; spirit.
    4. a perfume; scent.
    5. Philos. the inward nature, true substance, or constitution of anything, as opposed to what is accidental, phenomenal, illusory, etc.
    6. something that exists, esp. a spiritual or immaterial entity.
    7. in essence, essentially; at bottom, often despite appearances: For all his bluster, he is in essence a shy person.
    8. of the essence, absolutely essential; critical; crucial: In chess, cool nerves are of the essence.

    —Syn.1. substance, spirit, lifeblood, heart, principle, soul, core.


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    Essence exists but it is not a Material Reality, has nothing to do with an objects, material, physical existence.

    Knowledge is the essence of Reality, Truth our knowledge of Reality that we speak of is not Reality itself.

    If our Truth is a Lie, if we have been beguiled, Deceived as the the Truth of a Reality then that knowledge has no essence, no bases in Reality, it is an Illusion, it is a Non-BE-ing, a Graven Image of Reality, dead, nonexistent.
     
  19. Canute Registered Senior Member

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    Exactly - an arbitrary attribute or property used to place a thing in a category.
    Essence is a word, not a thing.
    Our knowledge constitutes our subjective reality. It does not exist outside of our heads.
    Exactly.
    That's a very big if.
     
  20. wayne_92587 Registered Senior Member

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    True!
     

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