‘US Boat to Gaza’: chipping away at the blockade

Discussion in 'Politics' started by S.A.M., Apr 3, 2011.

  1. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    4,416
    Both sides have a cult based on place!

    IT'S THE SAME PLACE!

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    What's the Temple Mount? It's the Dome of the Rock!:crazy:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount

    Yeah, they got problems!

    You may well have a point there, Spidey! Maybe we need to evangelatheize!
     
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  3. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Great post from holocaust researcher in Jerusalem:

     
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  5. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    5,770
    What do you mean by "exaction"? If you meant to say something like extortion, I'd say no, I see just as much evidence of Arabs trying to extort the Jews at the time.

    Most of these things haven't even really been tried, and I'm pretty certain that to go against enough international pressure would be suicide for Israel.

    If the Palestinians started another war with Israel, international pressure and self-restraint are the only things that would prevent Israel from obliterating them. So it would be very unwise to not rely on international support, there are plenty of Jewish expansionists who would love the Palestinians to take matters into their own hands and start another war.

    You could accept that neither party in the conflict is fully responsible for what happened, and that both parties are largely victims of circumstances imposed on them by larger powers (both Europe and Arabia). You could accept a solution to the conflict which doesn't involve displacing millions of more people from their homes on top of all that's already happened to date, which would be a solution consistent with the basis for almost every nation's recognized right to exist.

    The sooner you learn to build towards the future instead of tearing down the past, the sooner the whole conflict can be forgotten, and economic considerations could eventually render the whole thing meaningless. Getting obsessed over events from several generations ago on a tiny patch of desert, while far worse things happen throughout the middle east and elsewhere, this will not make Arabs and Muslims look good in the long run, it's already held you back a great deal.
     
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  7. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    A lot of people blame the holocaust for the Zionists dispossession of the Palestinians.

    But they forget that it was always the intention of the Zionists to evict the Palestinians.

    Ahad Ha'am documented it in 1891

    http://wrmea.com/backissues/0392/9203046.html

    If the Israelis wonder at their unpopularity with Palestinians all they need to do is ask themselves why they still hunt the Nazis.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2011
  8. scifes In withdrawal. Valued Senior Member

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    2,573
    cpt bork, you're living in a bubble.
     
  9. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    No one would have particularly cared if apartheid or deportation of minorities were the goal of the Nazis.
     
  10. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    The implication is usually that the Zionist movement wouldn't have had the impetus to get much of anywhere, absent the Holocaust. And not that Zionists, as such, didn't want to build a state in the area before that.

    So maybe give the weasel words a rest, if relevance is a consideration for you.

    Interesting word-choice there, though: "evict." Which implies that the Zionists are the proper, original owners of the land, and the Palestinians merely renting it from them. Probably you want a different word, there.

    I've never encountered an Israeli that expressed any such wonder. Have you?

    Addressing strawmen is easy and all, but maybe try engaging some actual perspectives if you want to get anywhere. The rest of us don't really need to watch you play with your little dolls, here.
     
  11. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    5,770
    How so? You don't think your side of the story is subject to a lot of propaganda all the same? What if you're the one living in a bubble, or maybe we both are?
     
  12. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    5,711
    Propaganda war erupts:

    "Boy in a bubble" Justin Beiber has complained about the papparazzi in Israel, where he went with a bit of a Palin-esque view to visiting those oh-so popular holy places, where all the wannabe Christians wanna go.

    He complained about his visit being "politicised" after he was offered a tour of Israeli towns which have been targeted by Palestinian militants firing rockets. This was enough, apparently, for Netanyahu to cancel a meeting with Beiber, a meeting which the young pop star was, apparently, unaware of. A prime minister of an oppressed race of people just can't be too careful, these days.

    It's a precious kind of a place, in more ways than one.
    I wonder if, Justin wept?
     
  13. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    5,711
    Let's get hardtalky:
    Do you think the settlers have had any kind of influence on any election, anywhere in the vicinity of "Ersatz" Israel?
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2011
  14. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    5,770
    Have the settlers influenced any elections in the vicinity of Eretz Israel? Hmmm I dunno, does the tin man have a sheet-metal cock? Now my hardtalky question for you: Where did you get that ersatz quote you attributed to me? I don't remember saying that and couldn't find any such post.
     
  15. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    5,711
    Sorry, it was spidergoat's. I have a hard time telling you two apart.
     
  16. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    For sure. I think the right in Israel tends to also be the religious right.
     
  17. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    5,711
    I'm unsure of the connection; the settlers are the religious right, you mean?

    And "for sure" they have had an influence on elections. Does this influence extend to intimidation of other people? Do you think settlers have an ongoing effect, or is it only when elections are held that they exercise their "religious right"?
     

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