‘Spanish Sept 11th’

Discussion in 'World Events' started by weebee, Mar 12, 2004.

  1. Proud_Muslim Shield of Islam Registered Senior Member

    You see, Jews like othe are trying hard to blame so called Islamic terrorists ! typical zionist hate:

    Doubt over al Qaeda claim

    A group saying it speaks for al Qaeda has claimed responsibility for the Madrid train bombings in an e-mail to an Arabic-language newspaper in London.

    However, intelligence officials have said the group does not speak for al Qaeda and has been unreliable in the past.

    Spanish officials said they are investigating the possibility of Arabic terrorist involvement, but that the prime suspect behind Thursday's bombings is the Basque terror group ETA.

    "The main line of investigation remains on ETA," Spanish Foreign Minister Ana Palacio told CNN.

    Intelligence sources have consistently told CNN that the Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigade does not speak for al Qaeda, and there is question as to whether it exists at all beyond one person with a computer and a fax machine.

    For example, this group claimed responsibility for the U.S. power blackout last summer, a claim that turned out not to be true.

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    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2004
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  3. otheadp Banned Banned

    * i provided a link to a spanish article where it says the spanish "science police" concluded the explosive type is not one that typically used by ETA

    UN Security Council blames ETA ... "perpetrated by the terrorist group ETA"
    * UN doesn't even have a definition for the word "terrorist". this whole resolution is basically empty and pointless jibberish

    * so now they have PROOF it's ETA? spain has concluded its investigation and reported all the findings to the UN? wow, that was fast. there are still conflicting reports coming in, and UN is busy making pretty declarations already.
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  5. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

    Not only does PM completely disregard cut and paste, but it cuts and pastes the same thing over and over.

    Regardless, the investigation is not over yet PM. YOU are the one who jumped to conclusions, and are now crying that other people are jumping to conclusions.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2004
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  7. swam Registered Senior Member


    Give me one good reason why it could not be Al Qaeda!

    you know their methods can make anyone shiver!!!!

    "A mass demonstration was staged in the streets of Madrid in protest against these attacks. However, it reflected the resentment against the Spanish government's policy in supporting the war on Iraq... It is hoped that the Madrid bombings will open the eyes of the coalition, led by the US... so that it can look into its mistakes and find a way to rectify them."
    London Al-Quds Al-Arabi

    "Whether the bombings were carried out by Eta or al-Qaeda, the reality is that terrorism today is a deadly threat to all human beings... What is needed is prompt action by the UN to set up an international conference to combat terrorism, as well as drafting clauses for an international and comprehensive agreement to combat it."
    Egypt's Al-Ahram

    Some sense. please, Fundamentalism is not the Islam you want to defend and Protect, PM!

    Why does Al Quds do such a statement?

    Salam alaikum
  8. Vortexx Skull & Bones Spokesman Registered Senior Member

    I think the stolen little van with typical ETA detonators along with an arab tape citing quranverses, was left behind to purposely be found by the spanish authorities to create additional diffusion or project the notion of a worst case scenario, where ETA + Al Quaida are working together....

    let me put it this way, ETA seems clearly involved due to the specific detonators wich you just do not buy at walmart or your local mosk. Al Quaida, maybe, but everybody can dig up some arab tape and it could be bluff of a small splinter "real-ira" type faction to pretend being bigger and better connected than they really are. Me tends to think the latter, a group of 4-6 young idealistic people of rougly 24-26 years old. The fact that such a small group could deliver a well organized simultanious atrosity, indicates that people within these group likely go way back and must have been visiting the same school/ university.

    Goofyfish mentioned terrorists craving the international spotlight between the commercial breaks, hence a link to al-quaida is important in getting some precious usa tv-time on foxnews or cnn.

    On a little sidenote: the american government have granted the english, for being such good boys towards the iraqi invasion, a special zero-tax treatment for certain foreign investments, now the dutch is only the second country after the english to receive this bribish reward, because, allthough we didnt speak out very loud pro-invasion, we allowed discretely the use of our tranport infrastructure (our large harbour Rotterdam) for usa army troops and supplies etc and also because a dutch guy is currently chairman of the NATO council. It's typical dutch to have an anti-war stance and be pro-human rights etc, but meanwhile ship cannisters of nervegas or sell nuclear knowledge to pakistan etc...

    These facts worry me somewhat that Al-quaida might declare Holland a target, the only protection we really have is that we are such a small country in the international playfield and that we so not really choose sides but sell weapons to everybody

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    Last edited: Mar 13, 2004
  9. Red Devil Born Again Athiest Registered Senior Member

    I blame nobody - yet, but it almost certainly look like Al Qaeda. I do not think it was ETTA, egven something this barbaric is not their "scene". It turns the entire decent world against what was laughingly called a "separatist" movement. No this will turn out to be something far more sinister.
  10. Undecided Banned Banned

    I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist here, but I see two possible scenarios:

    If ETA did it:

    - They could have used the Islamic tapes to throw off the investigation.
    - They committed their biggest hit ever, and would set back the Basque movement back to where it started.
    - They are getting desperate.

    If AL Q did it:

    - They believe in the Ummah and Spain was once part of the Ummah (actually Spain was Islamic longer then Spain was Catholic.)
    - They knew the US is harder to hit, and since Spain did support that illegal war...what's its name?
    - Spain is strategic and they know it.

    We are assuming that these two are the only two groups out there capable of this. I personally doubt that, I think there are other organizations that can accomplish this now. About Fascism that imo is an eventuality of this war on terrorism (real or imagined). Our culture is #1, we are the most powerful states on earth and we do want we want; deviants will be punished, etc. This is becoming commonplace through the Western world, and eventually the thing we treasure like liberty will become nothing more then a figurehead of a glorious past.
  11. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

    There's far too little known to speculate. I think society should place more emphasis on apprehending murderers than on speculatively examining their injustice- and/or insanity-inspired motives, however morbidly curious they may be.

    I find it interesting that for recent major-terrorism perpetrators, claiming credit is secondary to the responses terrrorists apparently expect to reflexively follow their acts, regardless of claimed responsibilities, that nevertheless promotes the terrorist agendae. This lends more to the argument that society needs to seriously and publicly re-evaluate both codified and emotional responses to terrorism, to which I've already said my piece in other threads.

    "Terror is for the most part useless cruelties committed by frightened people to reassure themselves." -Friedrich Engels
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2004
  12. foucaulteco Registered Senior Member

    You know I'm 100% convinced that the authorities, knowing damn well that Al-Quida are not responsible will deliberately "put it out there anyway" via the usually sympathetic right wing owned media outlets.
    E.G. Fox will blame Al=Quida automatically even knowing that they are not because by getting someone (any nobody or so called expert that happens to go along with the official line) to say it's possibly or likely the work of said group they put it out there and that's all they need, if you sling enough mud....
    I don't think I'm being overly synical, I've seen it happen time after time, are the majority of people really so naive???
    Propaganda, pure and simple.
    As far as I'm concerned by giving these groups any airtime they are playing into their hands! It's madness to do so especially when it's nothing to do with them even! It just increases their noteriety, surely the media has to have some responsibility in what they air and the likely concequencies.
    They probably don't give a s**t though, if there's a headline and it sells copies or advertising space....
    Ah well, as long as some of us can still read between the lines or take the trouble to look a bit deeper and get the real stories, I suppose there's still a glimmer of hope.
    What worries me is the Bush administration has such an advantage in spending power over the democrates that with enough TV time they'll convince the American public that they are doing a good job and blag another 4 years, a result that I personally beleive would be a catastrophy and a very dangerous outcome.
  13. weebee Registered Senior Member

    Which would be why the Spanish government failed. They pushed the people towards blaming their enemies, but the people seemed more interested in finding who had actually murdered these people.

    I wonder what would have happened if the Spanish government had stood up and said, yes it was very likely carried out because we took Spain to war, and see this is how nasty these people actually are…would the people have supported them? I guess when the UK elections are held we’ll find out, because something tells me Spain is just the start. And its going to be interesting to see how Blair, and the UK respond to such a situation.

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  14. Undecided Banned Banned

    I guess when the UK elections are held we’ll find out, because something tells me Spain is just the start. And its going to be interesting to see how Blair, and the UK respond to such a situation.

    Spain should be the start of a democratic removal of despotic rulers. I know that sounds like hyperbole but really that's what happened in Europe. All over the continent the populations did not support the war. Rulers ignored their population’s positions, and they ignored pragmatism for ideology. I think we should see a reversal of fortunes in Poland, the UK, Italy,etc. Where the population either by slim majority or massive majority rejected the invasion. This is an appropriate reaction for a population who now realizes that they are not a mere extension of US foreign policy. I think Europeans are angry not only at the terrorists for attacking them, but for their politicians for giving them an excuse to do it. This is a populist wave that could hurt US-Europe relations until Bush gets out of power.
  15. weebee Registered Senior Member

    Can't see the lib dems getting into number 10 any time soon....

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  16. Undecided Banned Banned

    It doesn't have to be them, it be the conservatives. Or even better get rid of Blair and get a new leadership. I think ppl just want change.
  17. weebee Registered Senior Member

    now there really is an interesting question, are the conservatives better than Blair...hmmmm. I admit that if the conservatives were in power they would have a harder time getting the 'new labour' policies into power, because they are conservatives, as it is Blair just sweeps them through. However. what's the point of change, if your not changing to something better?
  18. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

    I look at what Spain is doing, trying to pull out the 1,300 troops they contributed to holding the peace in Iraq, disturbs me. I just can't make a connection with whatever state of mind drives that action. It seems completely alien to me. I feel sympathy for the victims of the recent bombing but not for a good chunk of the rest of the country or their new leader.

    To do it out of fear? After any terrorist action against the US, every fiber of my being tells me to have whatever group did it to us ripped from the face of the Earth and unmade from existence. Complying with a demand just tells your enemy that you are their hostage and that they can demand something even bigger and get away with it. Give a mouse a cookie.

    If they wanted to change something about how we fight the War on Terror, it would be easier to do on the inside.

    [sarcasm] Thanks Spain. You just did every militant islamist fanatical group and potential Iraqi warlord a big favor. Hope it works out for you. [/sarcasm]

  19. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

    Ahhh, I sometimes think that the Atlantic is a good sign of the differences between the USA and Europe. And good thing its there, too.
    If i was in charge, id withdraw the spanish troops and replace them with as many reconstructors of whatever kind are necessary.
    AS for giving in to terrorists, I would think that the ones that have been arrested, assuming they are found guilty after trial, will go down for very, very long sentences. Yet what ive heard on the radio also shows that the Spanish "people" are capable of distingushing between fanatical murderers and normal moslems, which gives me hope for the future. And is also a demonstration of what perhaps Clockwood et al dont quite see.
  20. weebee Registered Senior Member

    90% of Spain didn’t want to go to war, so they voted their government out, and put one in which would take them out. They do it because they don’t fear…and they get their cash for the EU, not by invading countries and ripping of their oil fields…
  21. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

    Guthrie, in my point of view a "Normal Muslim" is one that goes about their day-to-day existence without blowing anybody or anybody's property up. Thus I think we should put our forces wherever they get the MOST fire that they can stand and keep blowing the excrement out of the attackers until there are no more attackers left. Go wherever things look supicious and then bring immense force to bear on anybody who takes a shot at you.

    And judging by weebee, people still think we are doing this all for oil. Ever stop to think how much the war cost us? How would we make a profit in the four more years Bush has a potential to be in office?

    He wage this bloody war because we don't want ANYBODY standing who wants to crush our bones into the dirt. Its a little too late to make everyone like us so we do the next logical thing.
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2004
  22. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

    Sure, then you might as well nuke tikrit, Syria, much of Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Oh wait, yoru in Afghanistan already, and how many children and non combatants have been killed there this year? Thus earning you much condemnation. The point is that there are million of normal muslims, its just they are hard to separate from dangerous ones, till the dangerous ones open fire. "but they started it" you cry as you apologise for killing 38 bystanders. Yet the locals wont understand, since they never actually asked you to come here and get shot at, theyd ratehr you went back to the USA and got shot at.
  23. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

    Tell me how that is worse than any war in history.

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