so recently the TV and radio have been flooded with conservative and christian pundits who believe that liberals have defamed the meaning of christmas by choosing to say Happy holidays to people during this time of the year rather than Merry Christmas. Ive heard this argument so many times in the last couple of weeks, and although it seems absurd, i wonder if anyone thinks it has some merit. though i doubt anyone on here is as flagrantly stupid as Bill O'reilly from FOX news who seems to think that the "war on christmas" is a calculated left wing conspiracy, i would like to know if anyone agrees that saying happy holidays instead of merry christmas really damages the holiday itself or our perception of it as a culture. if so, why?
It has no merit. The fundies are just using this as a reason to bitch and moan. Those dumbasses haven't even stopped to consider the origin of the word 'holiday.' It's cognate with holy-day. I'm an atheist, but Xmas is my favorite time of the year. Not because of the silly nativity nonsense or the connection to some savior, but because of the original pagan symbology that survives: the tree, holly, mistletoe, gift exchange, family & friends coming together, etc. Saying "happy holidays" is simply being considerate because there are three months worth of holidays in the U.S. from Thanksgiving to New Years, and they vary depending upon your personal religion or faith. No, the alleged 'war on Xmas' exists only in the minds of xian fundies. The rest of us just like the lights, trees, decorations, carols, etc. They're probably just irritated that fewer and fewer people really give two shits about some kid born in a barn.
well in Liverpuddlian they have said happy 'chrimbo' for many years.... for me if people want to celebrate christmas it's no prob as long as they dont rail against those who like its original pagan meaning. i like to say merry yuletide.....i see christmas as VEY pagan what with the Ever Gree Tree, Holly, Mistleto, Lights,Fairy, etc....you kiddin?? paGAN!! so i would not see nowt wrong wid 'happy hols' as long as people have Merriment. THAT's what it should be all about
yeah i have a tendency to agree. i think i would say happy holidays just because there is more than one holiday in there. not to mention the fact that not everyone on earth is christian so just assuming they celebrate christmas is a little rude. one of the guys that i heard talking about it on the radio seemed to think that it wasn't right that stores put up signs that said happy holidays instead of merry christmas at this time of the year becuase they make so much money from people shopping for christmas presents and they should show some type of appreciation for it, so of course he heads some ridiculous "family group" or some other nonsense and has successfully lobbied a bunch of stores to take down the happy holidays signs and put up merry christmas ones when he threatens to have his group boycott them. shit like that sounds so insane to me. i think the larger issue here for me isnt what people say at the holidays, its how crazy do you have to be to think that if people say happy holidays, it demeans christmas?
Well nodody I know is religious, and we all just say 'Christmas'. I think perhaps for the non-religious in a highly fundamentalist religious country like the US, they get a bit fed up with all the weirdo's and probably do attack it a little. So it's a war on the religious aspect of X-mas - What of it?
No it is just that some people see freedom of religion as freedom from religion. The forget that here in America a vast majority celebrates christmas and that hey the majority rules. Suck it up
It's a bunch of horse shit. The only way your Christmas, your Christmas mind you, is going to ever get drained of meaning is if I walk into your house and piss on your Christmas tree. Just because I now have to say "Happy Holidays" to some Hindu fucker, doesn't mean that my holiday is being toyed with. Now let's talk about the commercialization of Christmas, that's what Christians should really be worried about. Or maybe we should just buy Jesus a birthday cake and be done with it?
The whole damn thing was invented by a few republikkan conservative talk show hosts as a way to steal some ratings during a slow news month. "Hyuk! Lets have some fun and rile up all those fundamentalist xtians out there and watch the sparks! That'll get some ratings.." fukkin' cavemen...
And what do you expect them to do during their off-seasons? I'm sure if we look at their ratings, they've dropped since the election. All talk radio, or any pundit for that matter is, is someone who thrives on the current hot-topics. If we look into Michael Moore's past or even Ann Coulters, all we'll find is a bunch of crap on Terry Schivao and abortion.
Or MAKES hot topics! The 'Moslems' all want to go to Mecca.. How about if we could 'find' some scroll that says all good xtians have to go to.....Bermuda? and live with each other happily ever after, or till the 'second coming', whichever comes first? Of course, returning from the island requires attonement by, instead of eating Jezus (cannibals!), they have to eat each other! *__-
And another island for republikkkans and conservatives. oh wait, they already have an island.... north amerikkka.. Faugh!!
The excessive eating and drinking. The casting aside of normal responsibilities. The abandonment of work. The over indulgence in just about everything, followed by a period of excessive sloth. I shall continue to do what I have done for the last decade or so and wish everyone a very Happy Saturnalia.
its not that simple. the majority doesnt rule. the bill of rights was written so that people could be protected from the cruelty and tyrannyof the majority. thats why there is no law allowed that can establish a state religion no matter how much of a mojority believes in it. the whole war on christmas debate surrounds president bush saying happy holidays at the end of his holiday address instead of merry christmas. a bunch of righties got pissed about it because they thought he was pandering, and then a bunch of pundits on fox news and other outlets came up with this ridiculous theory that there is some sort of far reaching conspiracy to eliminate all christian symbols in the public square at the holiday season. yeah, its a conspiracy all right, its called respect, because not everyone is a christian and there is more than one holiday contained in the next month or so. crazy that people would try to include them all huh? even crazier that people would get offended by it. the same people by the way who think that when black people get offended by something they think is racist, they are being "whiny".
"Its not that simple. the majority doesnt rule. the bill of rights was written so that people could be protected from the cruelty and tyrannyof the majority..." While I don't really care one way or the other what someone says regarding this season, I'd hardly call asking that "Merry Christmas" be said instead of "Happy Holidays" an act of cruelty and tyranny. As I see it, if I were in an Eastern country, nobody would be saying "Merry Christmas," but they probably wouldn't be saying "Happy Holidays" either. They'd probably be saying the greeting associated with the religious belief of the majority of people of that country. And you know what, that would be absolutely fine by me. I wouldn't consider it a matter of respect, I'd consider it a matter of culture. I'd smile, nod, and greet them according to their custom. In fact, I'm living in Vancouver, and just a little while ago there was a Hindu celebration taking place, the Festival of Lights I believe. Those who celebrated (Hindu and non-Hindu alike), dressed in traditional Hindu clothes, and celebrated the whole day, and greeted each other in a way befitting the festival. I didn't see matters of respect arising there, and I certainly wasn't offended by it. While there are several festivals taking place during this time of year, the one that most blatantly used in commercialism and most recognized in these western countries is that of Christmas. I don't see it as a bad thing that the others are recognized, and included in the greeting "Happy Holidays," but I also don't see it as a bad thing that people would want the most widely celebrated one (at least here in the West) to take precedent. As far as I'm concerned, it's a matter of choice. However, as it seems to me, there seem to be a lot of people pushing that "Happy Holidays" be said instead of "Merry Christmas," precisely for the reason of respect. However, as I have said earlier, it isn't an issue of respect as far as I'm concerned. Of course, who am I to account for the extreme sensitivities of others? At any rate, one greeting shouldn't be pushed over another. At the same time, if one is going to use one particular greeting over the other, then one should understand why. By this I mean that by saying "Happy Holidays," one should recognize that there are in fact many holidays being celebrated during this time and that one by saying "Happy Holidays," one is giving recognition to those holidays. At the same time, when one says "Merry Christmas," one should recognize the significance of the celebration for which the greeting is being said. If anything, I'd be worried more that Western culture is undergoing an unwitting sterilization. By this, I mean that if many people say "Happy Holidays" without understanding why, and the real significance of those holidays being celebrated is lost, the the rich cultural heritage associated with those celebrations will become lost, and the culture emptied into a massive shift into pure materialism. ie, "holiday" will become taboo , and be transformed into "gift-giving" day, or season. Buy! Buy! Buy! Anyway, I guess that's my take on it.
yeah but you missed my next line, about how the law doesnt allow a religion to be established in order to prevent the cruelty and tyranny. i never said that saying merry christmas qualified as either of those things, i was saying that majority religion or not, its not the official religion and it doesnt mean we should just go around assuming that everyone celebrates the same exact thing we do when we all know damn well that we live in a country that is a never before on the face of the earth seen mixture of races, ethnicities, and religions. and on top of that there is more than one holiday in the same couple of weeks there, thats why i would say happy holidays more than any other reason, i happen to include new year's day in there too. If anything, I'd be worried more that Western culture is undergoing an unwitting sterilization. By this, I mean that if many people say "Happy Holidays" without understanding why, and the real significance of those holidays being celebrated is lost, the the rich cultural heritage associated with those celebrations will become lost, and the culture emptied into a massive shift into pure materialism.[/QUOTE] so what is the real meaning of christmas? to celebrate the birth of christ? by all accounts christ wasnt even born in the month of december or even in winter at all. christianity co-opted a holiday to serve its own purpose precisely so that people WOULD forget why they had originally celebrated the day. its good to see a holiday like that suffer from the same exact type of degradation that brought it into its sorry existence to begin with. history is like a boomerang, what goes around eventually comes around. im in favor of some gift giving and drunkenness as much as the next guy, but i hate seeing people who dont know any better bemoan the loss of the "meaning" of christmas as if we used to celebrate an original holiday to begin with.
I'm well aware of the origins of Christmas, and I'm well aware of when Christ would have been born. However, my point wasn't that it was ONLY Christmas that was experiencing a loss of meaning, but any holiday being celebrated within this "holiday season" (excepting new years). I actually had a direct experience with that today, but that's another story. Just a thought that occurred to me right now... I wonder when the traditions that are associated with Christmas now began (tree, gift-giving, lights, etc...). Were they adopted immediately, or were they revived at a later date? Hmm. Could be interesting to find out.
