what does the 'Devil' MEAN for both religionists and athiests?

i don't just mean his mythical status, but WHY a creation like the Devil should have arisen in Christianity at all.

and also taking into account the war on terrorism, where the 'Enemy' is....? is that stretgy connected with the earlier creation of the N.T 'enemy', the Devil? what do you think

itopal: This is the dual nature within everone; it is never without.

Like when holding a baby bird in your hands and you wonder at is fragile beautiful nature; and simultaneously you consider if squezzing your hands together would a kill it; and you don't respond to the latter; that which is always within (this half-devil like nature).
*************
M*W: Gosh, itopal, I've had many baby birds hatch in my chimney, and I have never ever had the thought to kill them! I wait for them to come out of my chimney, and I gently pick them up, show them to my grandchildren, let them hold them, and let them fly free! I cannot imagine squeezing one of them to death! On the other hand, when I lived in Europe, many baby birds were kicked out of their nests. I tried to capture and save them, but I failed. I went to the library to learn about baby birds, but I guess I should have left their demise to nature, itself, but I just cannot see interfering with nature was a bad thing. Perhaps the little birds thought I was satan. Whatever we do in nature affects us as a whole.

This is the dual nature within everone; it is never without.

Like when holding a baby bird in your hands and you wonder at is fragile beautiful nature;
and simultaneously you consider if squezzing your hands together would a kill it; and you don't respond to the latter; that which is always within (this half-devil like nature).

d___yes. i know what you mean. sometimes, even in moments of gentleness, you can feel the potential for not-that. there's also that saying 'i could hug you to death' that in a way is saying a similar thing. that the very act of loving someone could kill them

so yo are suggesting that that potential has been the reason for the creation of the Devil?

Well amusing to note, but the devil can't really be considered as the 'enemy'. The only thing he's really been responsible for is giving mankind knowledge.

Who drowned all men, women, children, animals? Wasn't the devil
Who closed womens wombs, demanded sacrifices, caused plagues, killed his own people if they dared complain etc etc etc...

The real 'enemy' is quite apparent, and he never had a problem showing it.

The concept of a devil is a natural consequence of defining an ultimate good. The human mind has little problem speculating about an opposite.

Neither gods or devils exist of course - but such inventions do go to the heart of the human search for moral definitions. Having supernatuarl forces at work helps people excuse their actions and need to take responsibility. E.g. it wasn't me that did that bad thing - the devil made me do it.

E.g. it wasn't me that did that bad thing - the devil made me do it.and dont the Gawd TV lot, just love that
"jesue, take this young man(serial killer), to your bosom, a teach him the ways of the righteous, for he has seen the light, praise the lawd."

Snakelord’s comments are upon the mythical

Certainly. But while they are mythical to you and I, there are those that consider it an absolute reality. These people do not seem to have the ability to judge on one side, and then the complete ability to judge on the other, (based upon personal wants). They will accuse the world of evils - the devil being the fall guy for it, but then happily excuse the greater 'evil' as long as it's not personally detrimental.

Duendy asked why the devil would have arisen in christianity, when the answer would seemingly be to not allow others the same excuses they use. One commits atrocity and it's evil, the other does the same and it's "gods will". It's all politics.

You say something similar in your post:

when what is good is seen as opposition (or attack) to an ideology and its power-base; and therefore is deemed the “enemy” and the “devil”

Exactly, while excusing themselves when they do the same.

Devil doesn't exist as we think. Devil is someone who we think is good!

Devil doesn't exist as we think. Devil is someone who we think is good!

Qorl,

every promise / prediction / assertion you have made on the forum is
utter B.S. (I would provide links to previous threads if these events
cannot be remembered). As reality has contradicted you, maybe it's
time to wake up and realize that you are not a Jesus reincarnation.

what does the 'Devil' MEAN for both religionists and athiests?

i don't just mean his mythical status, but WHY a creation like the Devil should have arisen in Christianity at all.

and also taking into account the war on terrorism, where the 'Enemy' is....? is that stretgy connected with the earlier creation of the N.T 'enemy', the Devil? what do you think

It's a fantasy character from various religions. It's also a great excuse
of not being accountable for personal actions that violate a values system.

There are no value systems without God--"all things are permitted."

As T.S. Eliot told his liberal friends

"The term 'democracy'...does not contain enough positive content to stand alone against the forces that you dislike -it can easily be transformed by them. If you will not have God (and He is a jealous God) you should pay your respects to Hitler or Stalin."

There are no value systems without God--"all things are permitted."


Sure there are. A person can try to live by any values they find attractive.
'God' is not necessary.

I agree. People do it all the time. Lots of gnostic pseduo-religions around--objectivism, communism, fascism, utilitarianism, social Darwinism and various mixtures of each or all have been the most widespread.

Sure there are. A person can try to live by any values they find attractive.
'God' is not necessary.

Example, my wife values 'expectations'. She wants to ensure that everyone
always knows what's happening next and when its going to happen.

I value language that avoids 'accusation' and 'heavy obligation'. I can turn
"Your program has a memory leak" (accusation) into "The program appears
to be allocating memory and not freeing it up". I can turn "You need to
press CTRL-ALT-DEL" (heavy obligation) into "CTRL-ALT-DEL can be pressed
to restart the system".

My friend values finding common ground. While others are focusing on
differences, he focuses on finding similarities.

'God' is not part of any of these values.

I agree. People do it all the time. Lots of gnostic pseduo-religions around--objectivism, communism, fascism, utilitarianism, social Darwinism and various mixtures of each or all have been the most widespread.

My bad :). I mis-interpreted the original statements as a disagreement.

Not really. All the examples I used were on the macro level. And they have all been vicious in application. You are, I believe, speaking on an individual basis--and those values you cite are good or benign. So we were talking about difference things.

All societies without theistic value systems fail and fail in very unpleasant ways. So do some, only some, with theistic value systems.

One need not believe in the faith of a theistic culture but simply accept and enjoy the benefits that faith provides.Ben Franklin said roughly the same when he advised Thomas Paine to burn "The Age of Reason" rather than publish it.

Give you two examples: Turkey and India--my favorite countries outside my own. I'm not a Muslim nor a Hindu. But I sure liked living in those cultures and I would never suggest they ditch their faith for moral relativism, marxism or another secular pseudo-religion. Countries which do that degenerate or are taken over by another faith.

Dutch Cardinal Adrianis Simonis recently commented on the wave of violence by and against Muslims in his country:

"Nowadays political leaders ask whether the Muslims will accept our values . . .I ask, what values are those? Gay marriage? Euthanasia?"

Not really. All the examples I used were on the macro level. And they have all been vicious in application. You are, I believe, speaking on an individual basis--and those values you cite are good or benign. So we were talking about difference things.

All societies without theistic value systems fail and fail in very unpleasant ways. So do some, only some, with theistic value systems.

One need not believe in the faith of a theistic culture but simply accept and enjoy the benefits that faith provides.Ben Franklin said roughly the same when he advised Thomas Paine to burn "The Age of Reason" rather than publish it.

Give you two examples: Turkey and India--my favorite countries outside my own. I'm not a Muslim nor a Hindu. But I sure liked living in those cultures and I would never suggest they ditch their faith for moral relativism, marxism or another secular pseudo-religion. Countries which do that degenerate or are taken over by another faith.

Dutch Cardinal Adrianis Simonis recently commented on the wave of violence by and against Muslims in his country:

"Nowadays political leaders ask whether the Muslims will accept our values . . .I ask, what values are those? Gay marriage? Euthanasia?"

I would have to ask what constitutes a society failing? We can talk about
Macro values if desired. 'The persuit of life, liberty, and happiness' is the
Macro value of the U.S. These are human wants and needs (no 'God'
required).

Citing so-called irreligious ideologies, like communism and arguing from there that religion -aswe knows it-is THE way is not thought out.
Take Stalinist Russia. whose huge face did we see? As is with most communist and fascit dictator states. HUGE statues, etc. and a cntralized power structure

In other words they are a REACYION to psuedo-religion that is i believe being termed here religion, or spirituality.

But all of those beliefs stem from patriarchy!

Of the beliefs in a fundamental separation between 'evil' and 'good'. For example, Christianity indoctrinated the belief in absolute dualism, so the heretic could be severely punished and murdered, being identified with the 'Devil'.
And with Communism, if an individual dissented from the ideology thay could be idagnosed 'mentally ill' and confined to a mental hospital and forcibly
drugged.

So both worldviews hold to an idea of scapegoating that which conflicts with the overall world view

In our 'secular' paradigm one can also be 'diagnosed' 'mentally ill' and in some cases also forcibly incarcerated

What's the 'Devil' and the 'Enemy' got to do with all of that do you think

i personally feel this subjec's really important to explore, though its droppin down the charts...so what's new. isn't all the good shit out of the charts?...hehe. no offensive to muber ONE etc

i am reminded of one of the first replies of this thread. about holding a little bird in the hand. and the thought comes, i could esily just crush this.
same it is with a tiny insect. just a whim of a mood and it can be crushed out of existence (i dont do that mind)

so it's lik saying we have two aspects AND. you know, have you heard of the 'excluded middle'......this is form Aristotelian losic which demands an 'either/or' reponse. such logic can't entertain 'both/AND'...(checkout 'transdisciplinarity' at google for more of an in-depth research about this)

pagan peoples knew about this ambiguity, and spirits were thought also to be ambiguous like us, depending on mood, circumstance and nature, and respect. like for example, if someone seriously pisses you off, what happenes? you get pissed off to. ie., you get dissed. so likewise with the spirit of the place....andf so on

what the Christians did was to wholly separate this good and bad, so we have the all-good 'God' and the all-bad 'Devil'. looked at psychologically, this Devil is like God's Shadow. and thus -considering it's 'we' whove made this myth, is OUR Shadow. in other words we've denied our bad side, or the side the all-gooders SAY is bad

hey. isn't it strange that not a ONE religionist visited this thread....must be because the 'Devil' is here...hehe

The figures killed until fairly recently..post 1500 maybe...are meaningless.

If you want to spam the forum with copy and paste, at least take the time to eliminate the more absurd items in the list.

Victims of tsunamis are not murdered.

Btw...I got myself a dictionary. Thanks for looking it up but I know what words mean (more so than dictionaries as they have limited space and are often dated).

But it isn't ONLY reason can see through this. there has to also be emotional freedom. intuition, ALL that the patriarchal deification of reason has demonized.
It is not only 'faith' -as in the patriarchal religions - that guides the patriarchal mindset, but 'reason' too. But it is a one-sided reason. This is clear when you look at the ideas of philsophy's
originators, like Plato, Pythagoras, and so on. There's is a 'reason' that fears and denigrates the body, and its intelligence. Actually they psychologically/physiologically, SEVER head from body. For example review Platonic dualism

The body and Nature are both feared by patriarchy. reason is only reasonable when it understands its DEEPER source

*************
M*W: Interesting list. Thanks for posting it. I happened to notice a couple of statistics I was familiar with:

~ Stalin murdered 50,000,000 of his own people
~ The Burning Times murdered 9,000,000 woman, mostly midwives

any time we have a thought to consider, we have the ability to think a contrasting thought. a productive thought sits beside a destructive. and visa versa. it inherent in the human ability to consider, reflect, and chose. the devil in christianity wasnt originally intended to equal something bad or evil, it was just a natural contrast. if it werent for the energy that final un-does life, the world would be a horrible horrible mess. un-creating things is just not a glamorous chore, but i imagine its no less important or valuable than creating things. its interesting how people have that choice, and in general we regard creating things as the only sane and acceptable choice, but if you take a look around you, creation seems to smother uncreation to the point of disease.. and there you go.

any time we have a thought to consider, we have the ability to think a contrasting thought. a productive thought sits beside a destructive.

d__which suugest complimentary opposits or extremes are are dynamically related. like life and death, and for example how decay gives life to the living plants, tress, etc

and visa versa. it inherent in the human ability to consider, reflect, and chose. the devil in christianity wasnt originally intended to equal something bad or evil, it was just a natural contrast.

d__i don't agree. with patriarchay, and especially with the absolute dualism of Christianity, we don't get the insight of complimentarity--as was understood in prepatriarchal mythology.....We rather get the idead indoctrinated of life AGANIST death, and good against evil, and light against dark. so what this does is it drasticallt affects how we ffel about ouselves, about Nature, and others we are taught to believe are 'evil'. why else do you think Christianity has been one of the most bloodthirstiest religions known to humans. it is cause of this sense of conflict between natrual complimentarities. they rather push everything into thier image of the Devil.

if it werent for the energy that final un-does life, the world would be a horrible horrible mess. un-creating things is just not a glamorous chore, but i imagine its no less important or valuable than creating things. its interesting how people have that choice, and in general we regard creating things as the only sane and acceptable choice, but if you take a look around you, creation seems to smother uncreation to the point of disease.. and there you go.

i feel when people are indoctrinated to feear change and cylic life--the necessity of life and death and disease--is when the fear can actualize into destructive behaviour. if you demonize Nature then you have no deep respect for it, and you want to hurt it, and escape from it!

duendy: i feel when people are indoctrinated to feear change and cylic life--the necessity of life and death and disease--is when the fear can actualize into destructive behaviour. if you demonize Nature then you have no deep respect for it, and you want to hurt it, and escape from it!
*************
M*W: That's why I say christianity is based on the evil darkness of negativity, and that it will destroy the believer from within -- thanks to Paul's personal pride and greed (both negatives), and the early christian patriarchy who created a pagan dying demigod savior who will doom us to hell (the ultimate negativity)!

Christians, you do the math!

The devil isn't simply a symbol of our, or the universe's, dualistic nature. It supposes that the universe is divided against itself, and that one force will eventually win. This myth tends to make people divided aginst themselves, that's why Christians are so pathological. It's an inherently intolerable situation.

what does the 'Devil' MEAN for both religionists and athiests?

i don't just mean his mythical status, but WHY a creation like the Devil should have arisen in Christianity at all.

and also taking into account the war on terrorism, where the 'Enemy' is....? is that stretgy connected with the earlier creation of the N.T 'enemy', the Devil? what do you think


The Devil was originally an angel of God, that rebelled against God and His laws, and started doing evil, disobeying God's laws. Many angels followed Satan in this rebellion. Satan and his followers were cast down from their status as angels of God, and became fallen angels or devils. They forsook God's ways, so Satan and hid devils are totally evil.
In the bible, the angels of God have physical bodies and seem to be capable of also moving in another dimension and disappearing. Satan and his devils never have physical bodies in the bible, which could indicate that they were killed, and lost their physical bodies when they became fallen angels. Satan and his devils are now, disembodied spirits, that float around in the air, in a spiritual dimension. They have telepathic contact to the minds of men, and tempt men in their minds to disobey God or disbelieve God, and to do evil.
God is using Satan and his devils to test men to see if they will choose to do good or evil.
God's will now is to obey and believe the New Testament of the bible; the King James version is the most accurate. The devils, being totally evil are going to telepathically try to make men disbelieve the New Testament or disobey the New Testament, so that men will be destroyed in the fires of hell along with them. The devils know that they are condemned to eternal fire and they are going to try to get as many men to go into the fire with them as they can. [Some of the thoughts that come into men's minds, are being put into men's minds by devils.]
Since most of God's commandments deal with doing unto others as you would have them do to you, and loving God, the devils are going to try to make men disobey that. The devils will use men to hurt and kill one another and lie and steal from one another.
The only power that Satan and his devils have is what God allows them to have. God is allowing the devils to test men, to see if they will do good or evil. The men that are doing good and obeying God now are the real born again Christians that follow the teachings in the New Testament. Those are the men that will be allowed to become angels of God in the next life. The people that don't become Christians, will burn in everlasting fire with the Devil and his fallen angels, the devils. So, the only ones allowed in heaven in the future are going to be tested and proven faithful on the Earth, the real Christians. This will help ensure that there will be no more rebellions in heaven.

Scriptures that show that God is using Satan to test men:

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.

Also, Job 1:8 - 1:11, and Job 2:3 - Job 2:7, show that God is using Satan to test men to see if they will do good or evil.

[QUOTE=itopal]Utter B.S.


The existence of morals: if the numbers were used as proof(!); the conclusion would be God has no effect, and thus no morals handed down; apparently the mosquito squashing scenario (man being the entity within the hand, and thusly crushed) is the rule and not the exception.


Your conclusion is incorrect. God does exist and so do absolutes of right (obeying God) and wrong (disobeying God). God's rules for conduct are now in the King James version New Testament.
The reasons for the terrible destructions that have visited men are simple.
MOST OF THE PEOPLE OF EVERY GENERATION ARE LIVING IN DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD. So, God punishes them, either by His own hand, or by the hand of His angels, or by allowing men that are controlled by the devils to do the punishment. Those destructions of people that you posted are good proof that a God that punishes evil men, does exist, like the Bible describes Him to exist.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

According to the Words of Jesus, many are living in disobedience to God, which leads to destruction, and few find the path of obedience to God which leads to life. So, if God does exist, there should be large numbers of people perishing as punishment for their sins. Your post tends to prove the existence of God.

Luke 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
Luke 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luke 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Your understanding of God seems to be incorrect causing you to develope false conclusions. Read the Old and New Testament and see how God punishes evil men, and sometimes many of them at one time.

[One further note: If you don't repent of sin and get right with God, He will punish you too - in due season.]

Ghost, you are an out and out literalist, however, at LEAST you are the only religionists -as far as i know-that has come to this thread, so i give you that

you have deeellllved into Devil's county. From here there Is no turning back (mad howls of utter devil howling echoing))))))))

Actually the Devil is soley a Christian concept which came into promience -in the church int Middle Ages
it's function is to frighten people such as yourselves from devling tooo DEEEEEPLY, and thus keeping you indoctrinated in your faith. it acts like a scarecrow. an 'Enemy'. for when the people fear an ....'Enemy' thay look to THAt and fail to see the puppet-master pullin their strings! this works both in patriarchal religion ANd State
For example in State it is 'the Terrorist' currently who is 'The Enemy'...the 'Evil one'

ok then. what the Christians did was demonize the pagan Horned God. This Horned God goes way way back into our species' history and was connected with Goddess. he was son/love of Goddess

He represents our depth, and wildeness and instinct and eroticism. all that the Christian church - unprecedentedly-demonizes

there is in a way no way out (though there always is if you are open to it) for the Christian once hooked dogmatically. cause if anyone tries to reason with them, they inevitably become the very devil they fear. the 'prince of lies' bla bla

so yo have made yourself a might cage dude

[QUOTE=duendy]Ghost, you are an out and out literalist, however, at LEAST you are the only religionists -as far as i know-that has come to this thread, so i give you that

you have deeellllved into Devil's county. From here there Is no turning back (mad howls of utter devil howling echoing))))))))

Actually the Devil is soley a Christian concept which came into promience -in the church int Middle Ages

The Devil is in the Old Testament written long before the middle ages.

Satan and his devils are real and they have telepathic contact to the minds of men. Evil men can be controlled by them like puppets on a string, which is why there is so much evil in the world.

One of the Devil's biggest deceptions is to make people believe that he don't exist.

He sure seems to have you deceived.

Satan and his devils are real and they have telepathic contact to the minds of men. Evil men can be controlled by them like puppets on a string, which is why there is so much evil in the world.
if that was true than God wouldnt be Allmighty nor All good as He couldnt or wouldnt control this devil dude!
anyway
how would you explain natural evils such as tornadoes,floods,volcanic eruptions,droughts etc ,,so called Acts of God in which many innocent people and children die needlesly?

[QUOTE=duendy]Ghost, you are an out and out literalist, however, at LEAST you are the only religionists -as far as i know-that has come to this thread, so i give you that

you have deeellllved into Devil's county. From here there Is no turning back (mad howls of utter devil howling echoing))))))))

Actually the Devil is soley a Christian concept which came into promience -in the church int Middle Ages

The Devil is in the Old Testament written long before the middle ages.

d__NO. the 'Devil' is a wholly Chrstian creation. where he becomes the adversary of 'God' and man. in the O.T 'satan' doesn't appear until after Genesis (The Serpent represents the oppressed GODDESS, not Satan)......."G.R. Taylor has\ pointed out that a truly siniste and malgnant image of the Devil does not appear in Christian imagery until early in the fourteenth century. Prior to that the Devil is, in popular representatopn, somewhat of a buffoon, and, in theology, "A pure spirit, dangerous and tempting but not a direct enemy of man". (The Two Hand of God: The Myths of Polarity, Alan Watts)

Satan and his devils are real and they have telepathic contact to the minds of men. Evil men can be controlled by them like puppets on a string, which is why there is so much evil in the world.

d))))That is just the excuse they make so as to disown their ACTUAL behaviour. Blame it on a scapegoat, their 'Devil'

One of the Devil's biggest deceptions is to make people believe that he don't exist.

d)))this is your double bind not mine. a way out of it, i suggest to you, is to begin being bold and exploring, doing research about the history of the 'Devil' in history. use your reason and intuition

He sure seems to have you deceived.

Your the one decived babe. you belief blocks you off from exploring your deeper self which the pATRIARCHY HAS demonIZED!

God does exist and so do absolutes of right (obeying God) and wrong (disobeying God).
LIKE THESE! (http://www.thewaronfaith.com/bible_quotes.htm)

The reasons for the terrible destructions that have visited men are simple.
MOST OF THE PEOPLE OF EVERY GENERATION ARE LIVING IN DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD.
nice try, but no cigar, people die b/c thats how nature works,
and following gods blindly leads to shit like 9/11, Crusades, Inquisition witch burnings,gay bashing,killing abortion providing doctors, voting a brain dead morron for prez etc.etc....religion preaches hate all those who believe differently..

no one could posibly follow/obey all rules of Xian God,well not if you want to live in modern society,...your bibles rules are obsolete
www.evilbible.com/

According to the Words of Jesus, many are living in disobedience to God, which leads to destruction, and few find the path of obedience to God which leads to life.
your god/jesus was pretty heavy into the destruction himself it seems

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother- in-law...."
..........Matthew 10:34

"Do you think I have to come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three; they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, mother- in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in- law.
..........Luke 12:51
"'But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me.'"
..........Luke 19:27 (parable)

"If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple."
..........Luke 14:26

So, if God does exist, there should be large numbers of people perishing as punishment for their sins. Your post tends to prove the existence of God.
or its just natures way...;) whatever lives dies eventualy,
no gods needed

[One further note: If you don't repent of sin and get right with God, He will punish you too - in due season.]
kinda like HANK (http://www.jhuger.com/kisshank.mv) eh?

if that was true than God wouldnt be Allmighty nor All good as He couldnt or wouldnt control this devil dude!
anyway
how would you explain natural evils such as tornadoes,floods,volcanic eruptions,droughts etc ,,so called Acts of God in which many innocent people and children die needlesly?

God is controling the Devil. The Devil can only do what God allows him to do. God is using the Devil to test men to see if they will choose to do good or evil. That is to determine who becomes a future angel in heaven and who will go to hell. The Devil is totally evil, and if God allows him to do anything at all the Devil will do evil.
Scriptures at the beginning of Job shows that God is allowing Satan to test men. Also scriptures in Revelation about the Devil being let loose after the 1000 year reign of Christ, show that God is using the Devil to test men.

Children that die below the age of reason, go to heaven. Children above the age of reason have committed at least one sin and are not innocent anymore, they need to believe in Jesus to be forgiven. Many of those natural disasters are punishment for sin. God will curse the work of a sinners hands, and children are part of the work of the sinners hands.
Most of the world in every generation is living in disobedience to God and subject to being punished.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Only the really saved Christians, that believe in Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and have repented of practicing sin, are living in obedience to God now, in these New Testament times. They are few compared to the whole population.
Real Christians are the ones trying to follow the New Testament. [The King James version is the most accurate.]

you are getting 'Satan' of the O.T. and the 'Devil' of the N.T. mixed up. i've explained alrady but you dont listen

but listen. Satan in the patriarchal Hebrew myth is an appropriation of a much more ancinet god, the Horned God who was connected with a Great Goddess (this mtif is worldwide in different forms)......the Horned God wasn't 'evil' but represented wild Nature, and instinctual nature. this was an inner psychological process to be explored, not a literalist mythology to divide
This is where you fundys go wrong. in your ignore-ance of the meaning of myth, you project what you dont understand onto the world and others--not part of your club (even children), and demonize all of them if they dont cowtow to your absurd interpretations. you may seem relatively harmless ranting away in this thread, but as we've seen in Christinaty's bloody histroy, give you power and you are extremely oppressive againsy ANY form of dissent

but what you should know is that the Devil you fear is your own Depths. These depthas were explored in ancinet earth religious spirituality whereby actual direct experience came from eating and drinking inspirational plants

not understanding all that you are presently lost in a superfical pile of dead old words that spread divisiveness, not just between 'you' and the 'other' you create, but also between you and the part of you you fear

.....and look ghost. you got:
'good'~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~'bad'''prepat riarchal peoples KNEW that that was a continuum. a dynamic movement. for example, look at Nature. ever seen a lion attack and kill another animal? would you call that bad? i am guessing you would, and so your myth pretends that one day that aint gonna happen right. that the lion will lie down with the lamb. heh that's even beyond the goodywoodyness of Walt disney isn't it?

but that Lion with his evolved fangs for the kill and eating meat is marverous Nature in its diversity. Nature which eats itself to live, like a living organism. for example, your cells from your body. they are constantly falling off--look at the DUSt in your house--and guess what, microscopic tenchology now can show us these incredibbly tiny creatures that feast on our dead cells. that too is part of this amazing organism that is alive and self-regulating itself....the bird eats the worm, the worm eats deacying matter...and son on and so on. all this wondreous event agoing on

then the back&white patriarchal myth tries to understand this and cant. why? cause it has split up a 'good' and 'bad' and confuses his abstract thinking with reality.....are you gettin it yet ghost?
from there he paints all he doesn't understand....preadtory animals etc, decay, death, etc as 'bad' and dreams of 'only-good'....but only-good would be a fukin nightmare. imagine if there weren't these tiny creatures eating your dead cells. you'd be up to your ears in dead cells. its be horrendous. or if one animal didn't prey on another ther'd be imbalance

us humans have caused the imbalance we have precisly cause patriarchy demands e mutiply, giving no thought for everything else. and thers the clinging to life too

just some thoughts for now