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View Full Version : tax cut
thinker 05-22-03, 06:52 AM I just read about the House and Senate(I'm from the US) aggreeing on a $350 billion tax cut set to go through 2009. My question is if it is supposed to go through 2009, will the next president have the power to stop it or will they have any conrtol at all?
Tax cut... where will they find money as they are already in troubles ?
thinker 05-23-03, 07:04 AM If the next president can control the tax cut what is the point of approving such a long tax cut like ten years if the next president will just do what he wants with it?
SG-N, ask Jerek. He knows a lot about monetary and fiscal policy. Definetly not from federal reserve, right Jerek?
SuperFudd 05-23-03, 04:49 PM Considering the US government gets 30 Trillion each year in taxes, cutting back 350 Billion over 10 years should be easy. Besides, the tax cut will INCREASE tax monies.
guthrie 05-23-03, 05:04 PM Actually I think youll find its more like 1.8 trillion dollars the gvt gets in. And spends over 2 trillion, thus leaving you with a deficit of over 200,000,000,000 dollars. What a lot of money.
And perhaps you woudl liek to show how the tax cut will increase tax revenuse, especially since rich people tend to save their money rather than spend it. Give it to wage lsaves like msyelf and we'll spend it, give it to rich people and theyll just slot it into a savings scheme adn it wont have any real effect.
thinker 05-23-03, 05:40 PM Or, along with what your saying Gutherie, rich people will save it by investing in stocks or some type of funds that will end up making them money, thus making the rich people richerand the poor people poorer. Man...
Isn't this the whole point of republicanism?
-A social elite that governs the poorer classes.
-A 'strong' government that directs its populace
Man what irony... considering Bush as its leader.
Prisme
SuperFudd 05-23-03, 06:27 PM Why would one think the middle class won't invest more as a result of the tax cut?
They will invest in busineses that will make them money by using that money to grow thier business, driving up the economy, hiring more employes driving up the economy even more. The resulting booming economy will pay even more taxes, increasing tax revenue for all levels of government and, unless the Democrats in congress spend it all and then some, drive down the deficit.
By the way, the "rich" will do the same.
What will the tax paying "poor" do? Perhaps spend the money driving up the economy, as will, I am sure will much of the middle class and the rich.
Most definately bad news for the DNC.:(
guthrie 05-23-03, 06:33 PM Excpt these tax cuts wont help the middle class, just the top few percent.
And how will they help drive up the economy? By buying american products? By investing in USA companies? When theres already a surfeit of venture capital looking for the next big thing to buy into and inflate the price of?
"Why would one think the middle class won't invest more as a result of the tax cut? "
because, one, see above, and two, studies show that the rich tend to save more of such gains, since they already have enough money for day to day concerns.
SuperFudd 05-24-03, 12:40 AM "Excpt these tax cuts wont help the middle class, just the top few percent. "
How could a booming economy not help everyone? (except the DNC)
:confused:
guthrie 05-24-03, 06:04 AM Because these tax cuts wont help the economy boom, eg by encouraging consumption of stuff produced in the USA, get it?
Merely having more money floating about looking for investment doesnt help the economy if htere is no demand for products. you do know that world industrial capacity is running at around 65%? That means plenty of spare capacity for when demand picks up, but is it? Whos going to increase their consumption?
When middle class even bothers to invest, it is always in modest sums.
Bush is taking a huge gamble:
When the middle class will finally have more money (which does not seem to be the main goal of his plan when you look at the percentiles of the tax cuts) they will have to invest 'in mass' in order to have any relevent impact.
Not only will they have to invest, they will have to invest in :
1- Things that are profitable - which results in more capita rather than less (considering the fact that the average joe is not a professional investor) The tax cut loses its objective if everyone invests in ventures or stocks that plummit and lose value.
2- That the populace will invest in things that matter. If everyone still buy imported volvo's or K-mart spatula's made in Taiwan, this will only result in more money for the multi-nationals and not a general economy restimulation.
Taiwan may have to hire a couple more slave workers, but not america...
Another part of the gamble Bush is taking is simply the fact that if americans at anytime feel uneasy with the status of the american economy, all the while having bigger paychecks (lets say another terrorist attack cripples certain industries and the stock market again)
then Bush will have worsen the situation by distributing more money that will be kept away by the citizens which will only potentially make a greater recession.
Gambles and odds put aside, many economists and even the U.S. Senate are all very skeptical about the theory that tax cuts = jobs.
A simple analysis of this would be to think the opposite:
Bigger taxes = more jobs.
This can be true since the governemnt could inject more funds where they are needed and corporate growth would be regulated. ex: pretty much every airline in the U.S. have benefited from your taxes to survive the economic troubles since 9\11.
So it wouldn't necessarily be false to say that more money for the governement would allow the government to aid in job creation.
But what happens when the governement has less money and has no guarantees concerning the behavior of private citizens?
... pretty much anything.
So again Bush is showing himself to be more of a fool than a King. Let's just hope that after this miserable failure that the american people will truly see him for what he is.
Prisme
AvatarOfWoe 05-25-03, 05:41 PM i have trouble seeing why people don't want their money back. especially when any extra money can improve the life of a person. wouldn't you rather spend yuor own hard earned money than have it pay for politicans which we usually end up hating by the end of their terms.
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