well, its summer time, and you know what that means... i will be hanging out in the alien domain a lot. and to start it off, i will ask a question. what are your experiences?? i see all the new faces, and i dont know what they have experienced. what are you beliefs on ET'S and gov't conspericy and such..... what are you spiritual beliefs? and, for our older members, remember the good ol' times... those classic arguments, makes me wonder what is happening to the kids these days! -dexter
My experiences well, I don't believe in ET, area 51, kidnapping-big-eyed-aliens and other Sci-fi crap. Why? Well, I've done a little research to all aspects of extraterrestrial life, such as exoplanets, changes for life, changes for intelligence etc. etc. My conclusion was that it is almost for sure there is life out there. But with an intelligence, maybe. And able contact or visit earth, almost impossible. When we look at our own revolution, you can say it took one hell of a time to create such intelligence as we have now, when you look at the life of our sun, we're almost at the end. So we were pretty lucky we made it this far. When we look at possibilities for space traveling (great thread 'interstellar travel is impossible' in the general science part btw) it is almost impossible to travel to exoplanets. About all the stories of UFO's; almost all of them appear to be nonsense. The stories are made up by weird freaked out peasants and never a scientist came up with a story. When a life-form can visit us, they must be pretty smart, so why aren't they contacting a scientist or at least someone important and reliable? let's say I want to see facts first, before I believe in contact with any extraterrestrial life-form. E.T. GO HOME!
Simple, KneD! Scientists don't go driving down dark dirt roads in the middle of the night in their pickups! Geeeesss, I thought that was common knowledge!
Well, scientists are zearching for UFO's with large big telescopes, and why aren't they driving down dark dirt roads???
In this country they only use the little telescopes to look for UFOs and only drive Volvos. Although now that Volvo is coming out with an AWD, they might try the dark dirt roads.
hehehe....... fun But chagur, now you're reacting on this thread (and it seems like your haunting me on the whole sciforum today....weeeh) I would like to see your opinion about extraterrestrial life.... That's where this thread is for, isn't it dexter? yes it is.
Okay ... If I must ... I take the position that: 1) The immensity of space is not a guarantee that the conditions for life, let alone intelligent life, exist anywhere else in the universe; 2) Considering the time periods involved, a few hundred thousand years is a very small fraction of time during which other life, even intelligent life, could have come and past many times over and we'd never know it; 3) That if 'intelligent life' did happen upon this speck of dust at just the right time, it would have either died laughing or decided no one would believe what they had found; and 4) I'm just cynical enough to believe that if I haven't experienced it, gods .. goddesses .. ghosts .. vampires .. ETs .. and who knows what else, it doesn't exist. So there. I've laid it on the line ... Why I think the only appropriate response is humor, KneD.
Kned Scientists do not know all the answers regarding physics and the workings of the universe so your assertion that intersteller travel is incorrect. You even stated that it's 'almost impossible.' Either it is or it isn't! I happens to be currently impossible for man to travel to the stars but that may change in time. As it happens many scientists do think that ways will eventually be found to travel vast stellar distances. "The stories are made up by weird freaked out peasants and never a scientist came up with a story. " This is one of those typical statements that debunkers come up with all of the time and will leave me to give my usual harsh reponse. It's patently obvious that you know nothing about the subject of UFOs. I really don't care if statement annoys you because it happens to be the truth. As a quick answer to your statement, I take it that you haven't heard of the Disclosure Project currently underway in your country in which 400 (up to now) witnesses have come forward at once to relate there own experiences with regards to UFOs. Each one, and many more are apparently coming forward as I write this, has agreed to swear on oath in front of congress that their experiences are true. The idea is that testimony from so many highly qualified people will cause a breach in the dam of secrecy surrounding this archane subject. These people come from the very highest and most responsible walks of life such as government, military and defence staff. You can hardly call people who were trusted with nuclear missiles peasants. And to other sceptics and debunkers on here! Wake up for God's sake. This subject is very real indeed and your smug self satisfied pronouncements that it is all just psuedoscience are going to make you look very stupid one day. I've been studying this subject for more than 30 years and I have become more and more convinced over time that people like myself have not been deluding themselves. It is the sceptics and debunkers, the ones who pontificate about there being no evidence, who have been and continue to delude themselves. You've all obviously either been looking in the wrong place for good evidence, listening to the wrong people or watching too much Discovery Channel. There is plenty of impressive evidence out there if you look. I make no excuse for the views aired above. It's not my fault that you're all burying your heads in sand.
j00t! j00t! its getting interesting....... it is a very sensitive subject......why to and why not to believe in extraterrestrial life... quite frankly.. it might evan be the hardest questions to answer in the universe....... or in our little universe. i believe that there is life out there... and its abundent. planets comminicating... empires... all the good stuff. not nessesarily in our own galexy.. or in anyone near us... but maybe in all??? we have no evidence that tells us that they are not there.the question should not be "are they ot there" but "are they here".
pls be realistic, because we don't know what some unidentified things are, it isn't sure it are aliens. The pyramid of cheops for example, we don't know how it is build, don't know who build it (nothing discovered about labourers etc.) and we didn't find any sign of a large site or something. Now everybody says it were aliens (constellation orion etc.) But why? there isn't any proof or sign from that too, when they did it, they would leave something too. Or at least they're would be myths about it. It has always been that things that couldn't be identified were explained by gods. Like summer/winter at the elderly greek myths. Now people believe less and less in a God, they're gonna explain unidentified things with aliens... Do we never learn that some things we don't know yet, but we're gonna find out, so we should wait without making up exciting stories. And about the discovery channel thing. Everything the discovery channel does is making up those crap alien stories...like the pyramid stuff. About all that people who swear to tell the thruth. We don't have any proof about that, offcourse they swear to tell the truth, and mostly they can't say if they are telling the truth, because they don't know what they saw, and maybe it was just some stupid dream..... GET REAL!!! (and pls read the 'interstellar travel is impossible' thread and realise that it is impossible, and not only for our life-form, to travel to other stars....)
Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! this is how i like it. heated debate... though we do not have enough people in it yet Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! so.. i guess i will strike up another convo.... once i think of one.. int he mean time.. i will we down south in big bear. at my house down there. i will have limited net conenction on my lappy. KneD how do you know so much??? are you positive?? i agree that people blame things on aliens like they did w/ gods and sorts... but,,, the posibility of life is very good, and very bad... there is no way to prove either side yet..... we can only judge from what we know....
Argghhh!!!! Unbelievable!!!! What sort of ludicrous statement is this.? And you have the nerve to tell me to get real. You've just proved my assertion that you don't have a clue about what your talking about. I don't know why I even bothered replying as it's patently not worth it. Of course! Silly me! Interstellar travel must be impossible as it says so in the interstellar travel thread. After all, you say it is! Since when have you been the fountain of all undiscovered scientific knowledge? GET REAL YOURSELF!!!
Just wanted to say that everyone can swear what they want, it doesn't say that's true. Criminals can also swear what they want, but that doesn't make them innocent. I'm not the only one who says..... And when you look at all known physic-laws you must be pretty stubborn to say that it is possible, at least you must conclude it would be a miracle and almost impossible if some life-form will succeed in interstellar travel. Offcourse there's a good possibility there is life somewhere else in universe. But when you think of all necessary factors for life, you must conclude life must be very rare....I don't even talk about intelligent life. (btw, I really love this debate too.....)
And apart from the science, the sociological factor Hi all, KneD: I think interstellar travel is possible, and we do have the technology for it. There's only one problem: cash. (Quote from the Right Stuff: "You know what this bird makes go up ? Money... No bucks, no Buck Rogers"). John Wheeler, a famous physicist in the 70's, has once said the following: "You can go anywhere!". He based his quote on the combined effect of time dilatation and Lorentz contraction when going at high speeds: if you go fast enough, the distance you have to travel becomes small enough to cross in a human lifetime. The only drawback is that you have to build a giant engine to accelerate to speeds where the relativistic effects become noticeable. And this is exactly where the cash comes in: there is no country willing to cough up the billions of dollars/euros needed to build such a spaceship, and then you'd have to find volunteers that want to pilot the ship (since these people will return at a point where the earth has evolved hundreds of years after they departed). The technology is here, the will is not... Ever wondered why we haven't gone to Mars yet ? Cash (there are some small technical problems, but none of them is not within our technological reach). Spadge: The reason I personally don't believe in aliens visiting us is the following: here on our planet, every higher evolved species seems to have a tendency to conquer: humans are ofcourse an excellent example, but just look at dogs (setting and defending their territory) or tigers, lions, ... In every group of animals there seems to be a leader, and the group as an entity seems to have an urge to move to new territories and conquer them. For humans the reasons are often dubious (mostly... cash... the irony), for animals it's usually the instinct to survive. I believe that if aliens would have visited earth, that they probably would enslaved or exterminated us all for their own profit. Does anybody care if they accidently step on a colony of ants, wiping out an entire society ? Would a higher evolved species bother to have pity with our own society (basically a sociological experiment gone horribly wrong) ? Please don't use the classical counterargument "aliens would be friendly, have an higher evolved society that is not out to conquer" or even worse, StarTrek Prime Directive like rules that alien civilizations might have set, since those arguments are completely without ground: only an individual or scientists (in the broad meaning of the word) would be able to distance themselves from personal gain and would merely study a new society for the higher cause of knowledge. But just look at what influence an individual or a scientist has in our own society (*), and you'll probably agree that their cry for knowledge is overwhelmed by the needs of the group. There have been hundreds of sociological experiments studying group behavior of "intelligent" and less intelligent species, and eventually they all come down to this: individuality is lost, a group of individuals acts as an entity ("a group is not the superposition of its individuals"), under the seeing eye of a leader. (*) Sidenote: by "our society" I mean the dozens of different sociological structures we have on our planet. Even on earth we have very different societies: you have the Eastern, African, ..., Western lifestyle, which can be subdivided into an American (continent) and European lifestyle, and these can all be subdivided into local societies with alot of differences, but some things in common: one being the need to conquer. You could perhaps use the following counterargument to these claims, for example that aliens would have absolutely no gain from enslaving us or exterminating us (since there's absolutely nothing on this planet that could possibly interest them)... Well, why would they "contact" us in the first place then (as many UFO related sites try to convince us of, usually with the required government conspiracy) ? You could also argue that our planet or our soup of societies (human and animal) is not a good starting point for discussing alien societies... Well, over here we have a saying that, roughly translated, goes like "Selfknowledge is the beginning of all wisdom". And to be completely honest, our planet is the only reference we have, so any other sociological models would almost certainly be hypothetical. Anyway, I don't want to sound pessimistic - I do believe there's intelligent life out there - but just sit down one moment and think what exactly the world is all about... I didn't find many good things that would stop us from enslaving a technologically inferior species. Bye! Crisp
Crisp A good reply and well argued. I have to admit that I can't really disagree with any of the views you've put forward. I gone over these problems myself many times. Unfortunately we are still left with the simple fact that the UFO subject is very real and that these objects are being intelligently controlled by someone. Who knows if they're aliens, inter-dimentional beings or human visitors from the future. I certainly don't and the fact that they are here is about as far as I'm prepared to go. Also, I will concede that nothing about any of this damm subject seems to make any sense whatsoever. The fact that logic seems to fly straight out of the window seems part and parcel of the whole damm thing. Logic is also noticably absent with some of the debunkers downright stupid statements to explain certain sightings. All these people do is grab the little bit they want to fit their crazy theory and then completely ignore any of the facts that don't fit. Then they sit back looking smug while the rest of us try to look for something that remotely fits that facts. Phillip Klass!! UFO expert my arse! The whole thing really makes my head spin sometimes and I wish the whole subject didn't exists and that's the truth.
How does this number compare to the number of people prepared to swear that they've met Elvis since he died?
That's just the sort of lame statement I've been on about in my earlier posts. Playing with words like that means nothing. I suppose your now going to argue that it was a valid response to the point I made. Yeah right! It has always seemed to me that you people who take the subject with a pinch of salt will simply not be convinced until you either see one yourself or certain governments come clean. It seems to be a simple case of your level of open mindedness. It's a simple fact that some people are more open to new ideas than others. It doesn't matter what evidence is presented to you, you just won't belive it. The other fact being, as I continually point out, that most people whole ridicule this subject don't know the first thing about it. Answer the following with a truthful answer. Are you aware of The subject's huge history and the best case histories. The large number of landing sites which have shown physical effects afterwards. The huge number of documented radar lock ons between ground and air radar systems and UFOs. The 3,500 or so documented encounters with pilots that we currently have on record. (here it needs to be remembered that most military sightings are never reported in the public domain and civil sightings are kept quiet, either by the airlines themselves, or by the pilot who thinks it may be a bad career move.) The thousands of photos and videos of these things, a huge number of which do not show any evidence of faking. The thousands of declassified documents pertaining to the subject that have been squeezed out of the US government under the Freedom of Information Act which prove in black and white that US government agencies have constantly lied to the people about the subject. Oh, and finally the thousands, upon thousands, upon thousands of witnesses from all the countries of the world and ranging from hobos to presidents who have been reporting encounters with these objects from the beginning of recorded history. They say there is no smoke without fire. Well, in terms of fires the UFO subject has gone well beyond a raging inferno. No amount of stupid statements or ridiculous theories from debunkers is ever going to put this fire out.
The point you made was that hundreds of people claim to have be abducted and/or probed. The point I made was that if you pick any half-assed claim, you'll have no problem finding hundreds - or even thousands - of people who'll back you up. David Icke has no problem finding followers who believe his tales about twelve-foot alien lizards. Does this mean we should take him seriously? I've been reading about UFOs for about fifteen years now. I spent about six months with an open mind, examining all the 'evidence', and the rest of the time sneering at the foolish. As for the solipsistic approach; yeah. When I see one, I'll believe. And I don't mean a light in the sky flitting around; I mean an actual spaceship. Yes. What? Like crop circles? Give me a break. Crop circles are a)circular and natural or b) man-made. Yes. They're UFOs. They're unidentified. Pilots? Yes. Photos? Yes. I've seen photos that look like flying saucers, but can't be categorically called 'not clouds'. I've seen video footage of ALPs, and heard the "I don't know what it is so it must be an alien" crap. You've got me there. I've never seen one genuine document that definitively states that the reason the government was lying was that it is in contact with aliens. Encounters with unidentified objects. Lights in the sky (which have a scientific, terrestrial explanation), clouds, weather balloons... "ridiculous theories". You mean along the lines of 'Of course it's not a geomagnetic phenomenon we're only beginning to understand. It's far more likely to be a visitor from another planet'.?
Do us a favour will you! You obviously didn't read my post at all. Please be kind enough to point out just where in my previous post I claimed that hundreds of people claim to have be abducted and/or probed. Also, please be kind enough to highlight the area where I said I believed that crop circles were made by aliens. In fact please be kind enough to show me where in my e-mail I even mentioned crop circles at all. Please point out where in my e-mail I stated that documents exist saying that the US goverment was in contact with aliens. "Encounters with unidentified objects. Lights in the sky (which have a scientific, terrestrial explanation), clouds, weather balloons..." Bullshit! That's just the point. Many of these objects have no scientific, terrestrial explanation. Anyway, you know full well that I was talking about encounters with structured metallic craft which are capable of manoeuvers that are far outside the performance envelope of any known aircraft. Or maybe you didn't know that. Either way you're losing the argument. As for weather balloons and clouds, well why don't you just throw in the planet Venus for good measure. What about the moonlight reflecting off fields of cabbages anyone? (Kaikura Incident 1978) If it wasn't meant to be serious some of the explanations offered by sceptics for these 'half assed claims' would be hysterical. And while we're at it can you tell me just how weather balloons or clouds for that matter; can hover, fly against the wind, outrun modern fighter aircraft, never mind carrying out manoeuvers that defy conventional physics. how is it that they can; affect vehicles, people, the ground, nuclear missiles etc in their close vicinity. shine beams of light down to the ground. arise from or dive into the ocean. etc...etc... As I said before, lame theories.....
You mentioned landing sites; 90% (at least) of all alleged landing sites are merely crop circles. The only highly-publicised non-circle sites were Provence and a couple in New South Wales, as far as I remember. I see. So they're not covering this up because of contacts; every government on Earth is covering up evidence of aliens because... why? They think we don't deserve to know? To refine your figure slightly: none of these sightings involved zippy metallic craft. None. Perhaps you recall the situation a few years ago when a large balloon was accidentally released over a US city (Chicago, I think). Hundreds of people reported UFOs that night. Coincidence? Geomagnetic ALPs can explain all of the above. When have UFOs ever purportedly affected nuclear missiles?
