View Full Version : speed of light?


xeth
03-28-04, 04:22 PM
i read somewhere... i think maybe in the science sectoin of the MSN home page that the speed of light may be in question again. its always seemed retarded to me that light has a constant, no matter what. it just doenst seem right to me. any opinions or extra knowledge you can throw to this topic? the implications of it could be huge

Pete
03-28-04, 07:26 PM
It's unquestioned that the speed of light is constant in all reference frames.
Usenet Relativity FAQ (http://www.weburbia.demon.co.uk/physics/speed_of_light.html)

There has been some question about whether it was fractionally different in the deep dark past.
Are the laws of nature changing with time? (http://physicsweb.org/article/world/16/4/9)

Greco
03-28-04, 08:34 PM
I posted this in pseudoscience but maybe its more appropriate here.


It has been proven in labarotories that electrical resistance disappears as the conductor approaches absolute zero, my question is without resistance how fast does electricity flow?


On a similar note, It has been proven that space has approximately 300 ohm impedance, my question is if the temperature of space changes does that change the impedance and thus the speed of light

Jagger
03-28-04, 09:17 PM
the speed of light is constant in all reference frames.

Here is a follow-up. What happens to time at the speed of light? What force carriers exist at the speed of light? What are the implications if force carriers exist without time?

Any thoughts?

Pete
03-28-04, 09:38 PM
It has been proven in labarotories that electrical resistance disappears as the conductor approaches absolute zero, my question is without resistance how fast does electricity flow?
At the speed of light in that medium. Resistance is independant of transmission speed.

On a similar note, It has been proven that space has approximately 300 ohm impedance, my question is if the temperature of space changes does that change the impedance and thus the speed of light

The characteristic impedance of space (120 pi ohms) is directly dependant on the permittivity (http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci840798,00.html) and permeability (http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci843279,00.html) of the vaccuum. These values also determine the speed of light. The values are constant.

Note that empty space doesn't have a temperature, since temperature is a measure of the average kinetic energy of the molecules of a medium. I imagine that the speed of light in any physical medium (ie not empty space) could change with temperature.

Pete
03-28-04, 09:50 PM
What happens to time at the speed of light?
In a light-speed reference frame, there is no apparent space-time separation between events on a line in the direction of travel. There is still a global separation, but it can't be seen in the light-speed frame. It's a bit like looking at a piece of paper edge on - the width of the page is still there, but you can't see it from that point of view.

What force carriers exist at the speed of light?
Photons, and possibly gravitons. (I think that's all)[/quote]

What are the implications if force carriers exist without time?
Well, they don't exist without time - they just don't experience it themselves.

The direct implication is that a light-speed force carrier does not age or decay. This further implies that the force mediated by a light-speed carrier has infinite range and falls off as 1/r<sup>2</sup>.[/quote]

Greco
03-28-04, 10:09 PM
Note that empty space doesn't have a temperature, since temperature is a measure of the average kinetic energy of the molecules of a medium. I imagine that the speed of light in any physical medium (ie not empty space) could change with temperature.

Some questions then.

1. Scientists refer to the beggining of the universe as very hot, what do they mean hot? How do they measure the temperature of the universe?

2. Scientists refer to gravity as space warp. How do you warp nothing?


3. If space is nothing how can it boil out particles including the universe?


obviously space is some sort of three dimentional fabric that warps by the pressence of matter. If that 3D fabric can be influenced by matter why not energy?

Is it possible that the 3D fabric can be inluenced by energy by altering its characteristic impedance?

Perhaps space could expand with heat, thus altering light propagation.

Pete
03-28-04, 10:54 PM
General Relativity for Beginners (http://www.phy.umist.ac.uk/Teaching/)

1. In the beginning, the Universe was not empty space.
2, 3. In General Relativity, Gravity is described as curved space-time. Space-time is not nothing, just like thought is not nothing. But that doesn't make it material.

obviously space is some sort of three dimentional fabric that warps by the pressence of matter.
Space-time, not space. And be careful with 'fabric'. 'Coordinate system', 'geometry', or 'metric' might be better words.
If that 3D fabric can be influenced by matter why not energy?
It's a 4D metric (space-time, not space).
Energy does indeed bend space-time. This makes light curve (but not slow down).

Is it possible that the 3D fabric can be inluenced by energy by altering its characteristic impedance?
Well, such influence has never been observed and recorded. And I really think that it would have been observed and recorded if it actually happened. Feel free to experiment yourself, and prove me wrong (I'd like that - it's more exciting to have my expectations upset than confirmed).

Perhaps space could expand with heat, thus altering light propagation.
No, 'fraid not. Heat (in the context of this thread) is the average kinetic energy of material particles. Free space by definition has no material particles.

Zarkov
03-29-04, 03:38 AM
>> It's unquestioned that the speed of light is constant in all reference frames.

Here is one person that says BS!!!!!!

Like Newtonian or GR "gravity", these one way forces are examples of childish logic drawn from simplistic arguments.

Greco
03-29-04, 07:30 PM
It has been established that electricity flows without resistance when the temperature of a conductor is cold enough. Now if the temperature reaches absolute zero all electron flow stops. Does that mean electricity stops also?

Pete
03-30-04, 12:38 AM
Actually, the temperature never reaches absolute zero.
If it did, all molecular vibration would stop, but not electron movement.

caffeine_fubar
04-08-04, 12:01 AM
http://sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=30326

caffeine_fubar
04-08-04, 12:01 AM
^ All you could possibly need to know lol ^