And excuse me if I'm incorrect, but frigates and corvettes don't even count as capital ships, which are ships of the line, IE cruisers and larger. So thousands of capital ships and tens of thousands of smaller warships with the Rebellion. Still small compared to the might of the Empire, with at least 25000 ISDs, thousands of larger warships (cruisers, battlecruisers, battleships, dreadnoughts, battlestations, etc) and millions of smaller warships. There's just so much space to cover, and so many places for rebels to hide.

Clearly reason dictates we yield to the obviousness that these are not lasers however the name of this game doesn't start with an "R" but it does start with a capital "C".

"Canon"

Our boys here have left no leway for reason. Canon is the hightest law in the land. They stated it so much that they've contrained Star Trek to the same principle. Unfortunantly for them they've restricted themselves from dishing out in futher "theories" Mathematical or otherwise.

Quite Frankly "Cannon" out ranks even the math. And that's the rules they've told me to play by.

Not they're fustrated because I wan't see "Reason".

I concur, while he's done a better job with canon he's been lazy. But truely how much...these issues of fire power don't matter to EXE's. They don't waste their time with such things
lets say the above is stage 1,

I'm an amateur Astronomer...I study alot in my spare time.
I have to disagree with you on a few things.

There are no Hyperspace routes in the Milky Way. I've concluded that Subspace and Hyperspace are two completely different modes of transportation simply due to the different kind of spaces.

For the novel I've decided to handicap both by restricting them to a System of the other's Galaxy untill Each can adapt to the new variables inherit in the new space.

My foundation for that Idea is based on the multi Trillion light years information I've found that says how farway the "Vondarian" (likely spelled wrong) or Star Wars Galaxy is from the Milky Way.

If that's true then Space is most certianly different towards what we may call the leading edge of the Galaxy. We could say that the Star wars Galaxy was created first and while they may be experience Time as one in the same context " A very long time ago in a Galaxy far far away" Is like saying the same thing in travel terms

A trillion lightyears for warp or Hyperdrive is still an unbelievable amount of time to travel...Both galaxies are effectively "a long time ago" from each other in a relative sense. There for a simple Wormhole cuts through a long time ago and far away instantly since wormholes can be accelerated towards light speed so that one entrance is in one time period and the other in a completely differnt period.

But that's not really astronomy but Quantum mechanics...Anyway that better lays the ground work for the begining...


For the Novel StarWars-Star Trek
I've left figures like the Borg and Q out of the equation. For an author their snap your figers and almigtiness don't make for a fair fight.

The System initial invoved are the Bajoran system and the Duro system in the Star Wars galaxy.

You say so with such fevor. I believe you and I believe my eyes. But you have constrained me to whats canon.

Now...Yours and my theories must be constrained to canon. The only reason that exist is canon now.
As a result Star Trek becomes unreasonable and so does Wars.

The only source I trust is myself. It's why I keep the books I've read as refrence. However Neutronium doesn't ever occur naturaly and Neutronium can not be smelted in anything other than in the Heart of a Neutron star.

War's just doesn't have the tech to harvest from a Neutron star.

Wars doesn't have the tech to harvest from a Neutron star?

What the Hell?

The Empire developed a weapon that can turn normal suns into the most powerful supernova.

They can go 20,000,000 times C.

They can blow up planets with a single battlestation that produces more power than suns do in millennia.

That's what I said.
weapons are not used to harvest anything.
speed tell us nothing

battle stations blowing up planets means nothing

why do you mention this stuff ...it has no relation with creation and at all. destruction has always been easier than creation.

So no...they don't have the tech...and unless you have something other than "Death Star" for an answer" why say anything at all?

If I could only get in your head and discover how your reasoning process works.

Somehow you think reaching the surface of a neutron star and harvesting a metal equates to blowing up stars and planets.

The process is that simple huh...If you can do one you can do the other, huh? No problem...Nothing a Deathstar can't do...

I voted Dune - because that guy could see into the future. No way to win agaist that. What Letro eventually did to ...his universe, I think he could do to any universe.

Capital ships are any deep-space warfare capable ships 100 meters long or longer.
Both the CR-90 Corvette and Nebulon-B Frigate are deep-space capable warships and over 100 meters long.

Dune (going from the novels) is really probably a close match for Star Wars here. We have little to go by to quantify Dune technology though, so it's difficult to compare. We know Dune has some fantastic tech, an some of the hardest soldiers ever portrayed. Sardukar are underrated, and the Fremen are just crazy. Then they have the Mentats, ,Bene Gesserit, guild Navigators, all of which are pretty fantastic, though necessary in a society that's outlawed high-end computing. Leto is basically a living god who could match wits, if not steel, with Warhammer 40k's God Emperor of Man. Tough.

Interesting. Where's that definition from? Traditionally, corvettes are considered boats and definitely aren't capital.

Well, this is Star Wars, not earth.

You'll find the definition in the Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels (both editions).

During WWI and II, capital status was (usually) defined from firepower and armor. Usually this were battleships and battle cruisers, and eventually carriers.

This is why some people consider the Skipray Blastboat a capital ship, because of its armament, in particulary its 3 capital class medium Ion Cannons.
This is ofcourse wrong when you consider how ships are defined as a capital ship in Star Wars. But still, some people seem to cling on to the notion that it is.

no canon source to my knowledge has stated this.

how is there a hell outside of this galaxy?

yes the Suncrusher, altho it jsut supernova'd the star, not turned it into the most powerful supernova...any supernove is mostlikely going to smack the entire system.


eh, no. the size of the DS1 and 2's reactor core is far to small to actualy produce that power, most likely Alderran was a planet the size of a moon, or comparative astral body. like pluto.

none of this supports the idea of SW being able to harvest neutronium. id say its artificaialy created, like synth crystals, but i have yet to find a canon souce that tells the compostiton of an ISDs armor,......can someone provide me a link, im having a hard time finding one.

yes, yes, hard analysis of grapebannanas. lets see, it was created, lucas said so, so, how was it made?





[quote=Sian;1294839]So Star Trek is more advanced because they have more unexplained spacial phenomenon? The vast majority of the Star Wars galaxy (With at least twice the stars of Trek's Milky Way) has been almost fully explored, and its phenomenon understood. As below mention as finding a new storm on the earth. It's already been studied to death. Your lack of understanding of canon is pitiful. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. (I can't believe I just said that.)[?QUOTE]
link please giving any spatial phenomena data for the SW universe. just because their universe is explored, you cant say it has any spatial phenomena, you can jsut say its mapped out. thts all that means. also..id like to know the radius of the SW galaxy...please help me find a link! and i cant believe you said that either, absence of evidence is absent evidence, its not there or does not exist, since your canon is derived from the existence of grapebannanas, and not the absence of grapebannanas, you can theorize about canon all you want....im not going to care.....



yay the size of alderrran.! thanks.



[quote=Sian;1294839]The way I understand tractor beams, they don't counter momentum and thrust, they just hook the two ships together. So I guess we'd see how a borg cube deals with a few thousand gees of acceleration while being fired on with 400 gigaton plasma weapons. a stardestroyer dosent have 400 TLs, let alone a small vessel. and you really need to prove its gigaton, like quote a canon source that says gigaton. or you are justifying lucas's grapebannanas.




do you think the US wants to end the war? those are two sperate wars. so does your idea on the lack of Imperial action explain away why the rebelion was not crushed at Endor? at 100-1 odds against, the 99 imps must have died of fright huh?



i thought you said they do.......


ive been reading over previous posts as to not make TW Scott's mistakes.....or Saquist's for that matter....and ran across the comparison between the mounted cannon on the ATTE versus the hand phaser. in the movie, ROTS, the at-te blast from the main gun did no damage to the rock face other than charring, when the handphaser and rifle shots from Insurrection vaporised/exploded a section of a cave a sight-geuss of 4mx1mx5m given that the phaser was a hand phaser and held on high for 2 seconds, and the phaser rifles fired a total of 4 shots, there is a difference in the destructive canon power between a hand phaser and an ATTE cannon.

so thats where that came from. :P

HiND-SIGHT:

Even so, this requires a violation of the normal laws of physics governing gravity-rebound star collapse.

Diameters:
The Moon: 3,474 kilometres
Alderaan: 5500 km
Earth: 12,742 km

So yes, you are correct that Alderaan is not as large as the Earth. However, the power demonstrated is not just the power to blow up a planet, but to explode it -violently-. A great deal was VAPOURIZED and the rest was smashed to pieces. This can be seen in the movies quite well. And Alderaan was protected by a planetary shield, reducing the power of the blast.

Also, you do realize that claiming that the hypermatter reactor is too small is utterly besides the point? One cannot judge the on screen evidence by belief that the dimensions of fictional weaponary is not in accords with what is true. That would be the equivalent of saying a suit case nuke could not possibly produce kilotons of explosive because it is too small: We do not have the information to judge size requirements for weaponry we do not understand fully.

Artificial creation of neutronium would at least be on par with harvesting it from a neutron star. The pressures and forces which exist in a neutron star would have to be emulated. This would be the equivalent of creating one, and surely, if one can create one, one can harvest from one?

A very intelligent response.
I have to agree also with Hindsight...It has to be artificialy created. With a source so a bundant and no word of mining neutron stars what else are we to believe. It's an intregal part of ship contruction and they don't tell us where they get this precious metal from.

Then they must not consider it special because mining a neutron star makes the metal very precious.

cloning in ST is common, the jem hadar where all cloned. its just not morale, we pride our individuality.




verywell the simulating is over.......we can resume talking about GL's Grapebannanas.



rouge asteroids and black holes are not spatial phenomena. and yes, SW focuses on conflict, and only on conflict. even the love is a conflict. theycant look beyond it, they are focused on it, like some pron addicts having their fix. they are limited individuals driven by the need to fight.

as your your interpretation of startrek, is see that you are a limited individual aswell, arguing just to argue, you and your SW heros share a lot in common scott. look beyond fighting, warring is intelectualy restrictive, in ST, people are out to become better than they are, to improve themselves.



ok those numbersseem real, good deal


eh, Grapebannanas,



yeah, Borg have been grapebananna'd by the writers.




sources, please.



remmeber that ST sheilding is modified for amplitude and frequency,

since the Rapid Nadion Effect is sub atomic, the end reception of the phaser may be greater or lesser depending on what it goes through. my geuss here is that the 400 gigawatt blast was somehow recieved greater than sent, but as for why they stated it was 400 gigawats i dont know. perhaps it was the navigational deflectors.

well 12.5 gigawats is a step back from 500 GW phaser canons. considering the phaser canons came first and is the most canon, i assume that one of the two are incorrect. it seems there are some startrek grapebannanas as well.

like starwars hasnt?


proof is visual. the mounted main gun on the ROTS ATTE scored the side of the rock, whilst 4 phaser rifle blasts and a 2 second hand phaser beam vaporized/exploded a section of rock 4m/2m/5m in ST Insurrection.

since the exact working of the suncrushers torpedoes are unknown speculation will be ignored. the guide says it uses plasma and dense particles to destabalize the core, and small stars may supernova. making a stars core more dense would have no effect on a star; the core is already very dense. if the thing really works it should detonate on thesurface of the star, and send the core out of sync with the surface, destabalizing the entire star. id think that a black hole would form instead of a supernova, but a supernova is canon. this is well within the realm of physics.

in ST, a small dose of Trilithium colapses stars, where Trilithium is a fission/fusion inhibitor. this is well within the realm of physics aswell.

ok.



not so true, can you harvest vacuum? nope. can you harvest gravity? nope.

you can produce vaccum, and you can procude gravity, but you cant harvest them. so by your statement you are saying you can harvest vaccum and gravity when you cant.

give me a canon source saying they harvest it. for what ive seen and read, SW primarily 'pressure bakes' most of their dense materials, since there is no record of a neutron star or havesting neutron from a neutron star and no mention of the technology involved, we can say this : " nothing relating to Neutron stars, or Harvesting Neutronium from a Neutron star has been voiced by canon sources"

and ill probabaly be corrected twice on that statement, but the core remains the same, no mention of it; therefore you cant say it exists.

and i know you didnt say it does, you merely said it should be. well it dosent so far.

my adivce to you SW fans, get lucasfilm licensing and write a book on all this stuff. then it will be canon, and if the books that have been made are any example of lucasfilms standard, you probably wont have to much trouble. you have the chance to destroy the Grapebannanas.

and if you do ill write you a half decent plot. promise.

you of course have the references on fleet size to back up everylast fighter and space vessel? oh no? no you dont? why? cause there is none? cause the numbers are not known? because the numbers dont exist? pffttt. the rebel fleet was at endor, not a part, the enitre fleet. they say 'the fleet' not a part or section or the second fleet, 'the fleet'. and what thousands of ships are larger than an ISD? a star destroyer is a cruiser in the SW universe.

"The Fleet" doesn't prove anything, sorry.

The comic books show literally dozens of different dagger-style imperial vessels. They're pretty fully documented on the Star Wars Technical Commentaries. Numbers are extrapolated from the documented size of an Imperial Sector Group (WEG Imperial Sourcebook) of 12 ISDs plus 100-200 supporting craft (frigates, light cruisers, corvettes, etc) times the number of sectors in the Empire (sector stated as a maximum of 50 inhabited worlds. Stated lowest range of 3 million inhabited worlds=absolute minimum of 60,000 sectors.) My numbers were very, very conservative. Larger vessels are also well documented at the Technical Commentaries, as well as a number of canon named classes and ships which include the Executor Star Dreadnought, Tector Star Battlecruiser (At least one of which has been placed in the battle of Endor) , and the unnamed communications ship in RotJ.

The Imperial fleet at Endor consisted of the Executor command ship, the unnamed communications ship and unnamed Tector class battlecruiser along with 50 Imperator class and 12 Victory class Star Destroyers, at least one Immobilizer 418 frigate and the usual assortment of smaller support ships. (Galaxy Guide 5, New Essential Chronology, New Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels)

As far as the rebel fleet, 1: The rebels pulled whatever vessels they had available. being a cell-based and widely scattered network, it's ridiculous to assume they're even capable of quickly assembling their entire force in one place on short notice. The rebel alliance brought 20 Mon Cal cruisers of various sizes, the 5-mile Home One and two sister ships, 3 of the smaller Liberty-class, and at least 50 smaller vessels, along with over 500 fighter craft.

The only reason they weren't annihilated by the Imperial fleet is because they had orders to only contain the rebels and prevent their escape.. Palpatine's overconfidence, as he wanted the Death Star II itself to blow the rebel fleet to bits. If the Imperial fleet had been given permission to engage openly, the rebel fleet wouldn't have stood a chance.

HiND-SIGHT:

This explains it fine:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sun_Crusher

They can indeed destablize stars, but they cannot produce supernova from smaller stars than can go super nova.

These are forces. Forces of nature are not the same as substances of nature.

Neutronium is a substance.

I can provide no such quotes. But neutronium is used by SW (this much IS found in the canon) and this leaves us two options. The "pressure cooking" is just as technologically advanced as taking it from actual stars.

This link of yours....well. I can't really blame YOU...you had no idea but a...

This thing was destroyed by a black hole...hello black hole.
Now I know you're asking your self what's the big deal. Well Star's die in stages and unless I've missed my mark a neutron star is a precursor to a black hole.

When a supermassive star collaspes and supernovas (not a regular nova) what remains is a neutron star. A star so massive that it's thrown off it's outter shell because of the inability to fuse iron into anything else. But the star continues to collaspe on the core pushing protons and electrons so close to each other than they nuetralize the result is a neutron star...

Neutron stars will pulse after a time (serval thousand years after forming) because of the gathering of energy and matter. That matter streams in a disk about the equator where it's added to the star while some matter and energy are ejected out the poles of the star

These are known as pulsars After a neutron star has gathered more mass from a comanion star or stellar debris (apparently) it continues to collaspe in on it's self untill light can no longer leave its surface.

In other words a neutron star is the last step before (black hole)
If the sun crusher can't survive a black hole then the best of star wars technology couldn't survive a neutron star...

If they can't survive the forces of a neutron star then there is no way to harvest neutronium. Therefore what ever neutronium is in star wars it isn't the stuff of neutron stars and they have no process of duplicating it.