THE SOUL IF everyone believed that to die was to cease existence, how difficult it would be to raise an army to fight a selected enemy on foreign soil. If people believed that when you die, you are dead, not alive, how difficult it would be getting people to support a religion which taught, "If you give up here and now a portion of your worldly goods, your time and your pursuit of happiness on earth, you will be rewarded an hundred fold after your soul leaves your body and goes to your heavenly body." How difficult it would be to collect people's children in busses on Sunday and teach them fables, untruths and half truths. IF people knew there was no "religious life" after death, how difficult it would be to get them to give ten percent of their hard earned income to support some religion. How close to impossible would it be to get people who knew there was no religious life after death, to believe in sin and salvation? How soon would priests, ministers and rabbis be forced to obtain some honest and honorable employment? IF a people really knew there was no religious afterlife, how difficult would it be to get people to be satisfied with the injustices, the cruelties, the wars, the excessive taxation, the deprivations and humiliations which religion and government forces upon people? And, all of this evil is forced upon us because there is supposed to be a better life after death! We are assured, "There IS pie in the sky in the sweet bye and bye." Our religious and government authorities said so. If you knew beyond doubt, you were being lied to, would you stop submitting to the political, religious and business schemes which steal your money, land, water, forest, children, time and your health from you? And don't forget your freedom and future. So to start, belief in a religious soul and a religious after life is a very profitable weapon of coercion used to make you fit the mold of the authorities, and make you into a "good mold fitting citizen". This concept of the religious soul and religious after life is used by kings, politicians, priests, salesmen, churches, casket makers, lawyers, insurance companies and indeed, it is profitable for all types of businesses, religions and governments. The concept of the religious soul (or spirit) is a strong bargaining power which the religions and governments have over your life - right now! This concept is not Christian. It is not even Pagan. It has from ages past been the HOPE of all people, that in the future (after death) one will be reunited with his loved ones. This hope also stems from the wish that present injustices will be punished and made right. This hope wishes those who suffer unjustly, will be rewarded and vindicated. They hope for Divine Justice. These religious soul and after life concepts are high ideals and hopes (whether they be true or not). But in the hands of holy men and politicians, these hopes of a "religious after life" become deadly weapons. The coercive use of these hopes are just as effective for whipping people into unwilled consent as is a Thompson submachine gun, or a sawed off, double barreled, twelve gage Fox shotgun, loaded with double aught buck shot. With this deadly weapon concept of the religious soul and religious after life, people are relieved of their hard earned money and their property. Often they are called upon to forfeit their children and even worse, their own lives in some war in a far away place. WHY? Because the others (the enemy) wish to conduct their lives differently from the Christian way, the Muslim way, the democratic way, or some other way. And don't forget, almost ALL religions have a mandate from their God which makes them the judge, jury and executioner of other men's actions, thoughts and ways of life. THE RELIGIOUS SOUL CONCEPT IS A DEADLY WEAPON! The religions of the western world teach that there is a religious life after this one. And what have they done to turn our supposed benefit to their favor and profit? They have claimed they have the KEYS to that future life which comes after this one. If you do this or that, believe this or that, give this or that, and obey this or that, you will be considered for the good side of the hereafter, called "HEAVEN". If you do NOT conform to this or that, you will live in a bad place in the after life called "HELL". Religion has the KEYS to that place, too. (Wouldn't you know it!) The religions know far more about the place called Hell than they do about the thing called the "SOUL". According to the believers, Hell is a place where you will be tormented day and night, and you will wish a thousands times a day you could simply cease to exist and be done with it. I do not claim my statistics can be verified, but they are based upon the claims of the different Christian religions, sects and cults. According to their claims of who goes to heaven and who goes to hell, any non Christian has about a one in an hundred million chance of getting into heaven. Most lotteries give better odds. What is left for the rest of mankind is "HELL". For the Christian (that is, those raised up in a Christian environment, or country) the odds, based on the claims of the larger Christian denominations, gives you about a one in fifty chance of going to heaven if YOU claim to be a Christian. And I have stretched the outcome quite a bit in favor of heaven. Most denominations conclude that less than fifty percent of their OWN members will qualify for heaven (according to their doctrines). Those of OTHER Christian religions and denominations have an even smaller chance of ever seeing heaven. If you don't claim to be a Christian, the odds are about one in an hundred million that you will get to go to that place of bliss called, Heaven. Therefore, even if there were a religious soul and life after death, it is divided into the good life (which very few will see) and a life worse than death where you will beg every minute of it to, "Please let me cease to exist so I may escape these terrible tortures." So religion consoles us with this promise of life after death. Is this really much of a consolation? Do the religions really have the secret, inside treasure map to this future life after death? Are we dealing with facts here? Or, are we dealing with a fiction? This religious soul concept is an unproven religious myth which has nothing to do with the facts of the matter. Whether one lives after death, or ceases to exist, no one knows for sure. Nor, can they give any proof it. All so called proofs, information and "facts" come to us the same way we get all religion. That is, it comes through unverifiable visions, dreams, revelations, voices in the head, misunderstood events and ancient barbarian mysteries, concepts and traditions. The problem with the concept of the religious soul is NOT whether we will have conscience knowledge of ourselves after death or not. The problem is, does some religion have control over the future destiny of our souls - or not? Does some religion have the KEYS to our infinite and eternal abode? If so, which religion has demonstrated that it is loving enough, reasonable enough, shows enough justice and concern for ALL mankind to be trusted by God (the Just) with such a Godly responsibility as KEEPER OF THE KEYS? What religion has not persecuted those of other beliefs and ways? What religion has not persecuted its own people for the silliest and most absurd of reasons? All religions have committed every crime, every indecency, every immorality and every hurt which entered into their imagination. They have done these things to their own people, and to those of other religions. What religion has shown by it's history, and by it's modern reasonableness and rationality, that it is WORTHY of being trusted by God the Almighty - God, the Just? Which religion has proven to the rest of us that it is Wise enough and Just enough for God to trust them to honorably and wisely keep the KEYS to heaven and hell? Yet, all religions CLAIM THEY possess the KEYS. They further claim, that all the other religions LIE about possessing the KEYS. WHO HAS THE KEYS? I CONCLUDE, "NONE OF THE ABOVE." If a person is gradually deprived of oxygen (by drowning, freezing, or confinement) his mind soon ceases to function as a rational mind. He soon can not solve the simplest math or logical problem. In very short order, the mind blanks out and stops controlling the voluntary functions of the body. If the oxygen deprivation continues, the involuntary functions of the body will grind to a halt. Respiration, heart beat and brain activity of all types stop. The person is considered dead. A few people who have had this happen to them have been revived. However, (and this is a very important - however) some of them forget who they are.. They totally forget the past. They forget how to walk or eat. They can not speak, nor understand their native language (or any language). In other words, their brains have crashed. Their data base, their hard drives and their programs have been erased. Their operating system must begin at the beginning. They are babies again. They must be completely reprogrammed. They must learn EVERYTHING over again. Now, they must relearn everything over except the involuntary functions. I have only read about three of these cases, but one would be quite enough. The second learning experience is obviously not the same as the first learning experience. The resulting person is totally different from the person they were before the oxygen deprivation. They remember absolutely nothing of whom they were before their death experience, even under hypnosis. Does the new person care? Where is the first person (or his soul)? Did the first person's soul get erased so it became the clean slate for the second person's mind? What happened to the first soul (soul 1)? Did soul (1) leave and go where souls go? If so, does this mean the first person is now in hell or heaven, according to the odds and the past life of person (1)? If soul (1) went to where ever, did a new soul (2) come down and enter person (2)? Does person (2) create his own soul? How does this work? If soul (1) stayed with the dead, but now living body, why could person (2) not remember anything about person (1)? Does the soul not communicate with the mind? Doesn't soul (1) contain the memories of the person (1)? If the soul does not contain the memories of the person, of what advantage is the soul to us? If the soul can not transmit information to us (the owners) to whom can the soul transmit information? If the soul (which is not us) lives on, but the mind (which is us) does not live on, where is the benefit of this soul to us? What is the profit of eternal life if the soul lives it, but - we don't? What do the holy men know about the soul? How big is it? BB size? Brain size? Basketball size? Is the soul the same size as the body which it inhabits? Is it round? Square? Rope like? Can the soul see without a body. Does it have eyes? Can it hear? Smell? Taste? Feel? Can the soul THINK when it is not in the body? If so, how? If not, why not? Is the soul like a Black Box or Video Tape? Can it only be played back on a God Machine? Will one of the people who died of oxygen deprivation (but was revived) die again and find he is now two souls? What if soul (1) was "saved," but soul (2) was not? Holy men tell us the religious soul is made out of spirit-stuff. The body is made out of energy/matter. How could the body and soul stick together without drifting apart? Is there a connector or life cord? Of what is the life cord made? Is there a third type of stuff which will stick to both soul and body called connector-stuff? Maybe I have just helped the scientific holy men solve one of their problems by inventing "connector-stuff" for them. Holy men tell us there is a religious soul. They tell us it lives forever. They say we are really made of spirit-stuff and the energy/matter which surrounds us is simply a material which we really do not need. When we die we will be freed from this material body to be the rulers in heaven with God the Almighty. I have asked lots of questions. I didn't ask hundreds more which I could have asked. Can holy men answer these questions? Can you answer them? Do you know of anyone who can answer a single one of these questions with truthful answers and facts not based on beliefs or personal opinions? None of us knows a single fact, a single truth about a soul. Nor, do we know if there IS a soul. Why do we know nothing about the soul? That seems to be an important question. How COULD we know something about NOTHING? The concept of a religious soul is an ignorant, unscientific guess, a HOPE, a non-factual doctrine of holy men who use the concept as a weapon against people. With the teaching of the religious soul, comes fear of the future, fear of those who claim they have the KEYS, fear of offending the holy men, fear of not following or understanding their holy books and holy Gods. This teaching of the religious soul causes people to be willing to die for some worthless cause or concept. They believe they will live again with great gain and happiness. People will accept poverty and misery on earth when they believe misery here will qualify them to be happy in the future. They are willing to support religion now, because soon, their Eternal Life Insurance Policy will support them for eternity. They will put up with corruption on earth because this proves they will qualify for ETERNAL LIFE after they die. Do not forget! ALL YOU HAVE TO DO to obtain this heaven, this eternal life, this salvation of your religious soul, is to believe the unbelievable. BELIEVE AND OBEY. If you BELIEVE and OBEY you get what all religions offer. YOU GET SOMETHING FOR NOTHING! How old is our "Eternal religious soul"? Doesn't eternal suggest an eternal past as well as an eternal future? I would like to ask some more questions. Where were you one thousand years ago? One million years ago? Do you know? Can you find out? And this question gets to the point, "Who cares?" Shall one NOT be upset because he doesn't know where he has been in the past, but SHALL get upset because he doesn't know where he will be going in the future? Where will you be one million years from now? One thousand years from now? One hundred years from now? Who can answer? Holy men say they know. Do they - really? I was once a holy man. I gave up my personal life, my opportunities to make a good comfortable life for myself, my wife and my children. We ate sparsely. We did without the "wants" of life and skimped on the "needs" of life. I spent thousands of dollars on universities and seminary. I spent more thousands on books. I often worked one or more low paying jobs, plus, went to school and studied. I hurt my health not getting enough sleep. My wife worked at low paying and long houred jobs. With all this, I was a pastor. With jobs, children, house keeping, studying, classes, and pastoring, we all sacrificed. I didn't even have a guilty conscience over what I was putting my loved ones through. Why? For what? I believed I could make a difference in my life and the life of others. I believed I could lead people to a better life. I believed the sacrifices by me, my wife and children would make me a better minister to people. Then I could help others escape hell and move right into heaven and the good life when they died. I believed in sin and salvation. I believed in hell and heaven. I believed in the Devil and God. I believed in the religious soul and religious after life. I can no longer believe in the religious soul as taught by the religions. The mention of the soul in the Jewish Testament refers to the "breath". In the Old Testament, the phrase "breath of life" and "soul" are identical. That is, they both refer to the air which is inhaled and exhaled by the body. If a person stopped breathing, his breath (soul) had left him. In the Old Testament, even animals are described as having souls (breath). When I realized (through much studying and agonizing) that there was no religious sin or salvation, no religious hell or heaven and no religious Devil or God, I also realized no religion held the KEYS to my ultimate destiny. I realized, there was no religious soul and that there could not possibly even BE a religious soul. The concept of a religious soul, and the easy (something for nothing) salvation of that soul, goes against all the teachings about the justice, honesty and wisdom of the Almighty God. Either, God IS JUST, in which case there is NO (something for nothing) religious soul salvation, or plan of salvation. Or, God is unjust, in which case we could not believe anything he said anyway. Choose either one. According to religion, when a person dies and his soul goes to its reward (or punishment) how can that soul see without eyes or hear without ears? How will it feel without skin, or smell the roasting fire without a nose? Will the hereafter be like a dream which drifts in and out of the mind? In fact, how could one even dream without a material brain? The religious soul made from spirit-stuff makes no sense at all. Paul tells us our new bodies will be made of spirit-stuff. But all Bible descriptions of hell could only be suffered by a live physical body surrounded by live physical instruments of torture. In fact, if we were to experience heaven, how could we do that without a body which included our physical senses? I have studied several religions and as yet, I have not found a single one which is honest or consistent in its description of the soul. All religions say the soul is a mystery. They know neither how the soul enters, nor leaves the body. They do not know the size, shape or substances of the soul. They do not know and can not even guess or tell you WHAT IS THE FUNCTION OF THE SOUL. They do not know what is the power or the limits of the soul. They do not know, nor can they tell you, if you are in control of your own soul, or if your soul controls you. They can not tell you if animals have souls, or if the souls of animals are made of the same spirit-stuff of which they say, man's soul is made. If animals have a soul, then man has a soul. If animals do not have a soul, but man does, at what point in man's evolution did the soul come into being? Is the soul a product of man's evolution? Is it a product of outside intervention? Or, is it a product of imagination? Since some men are good and some are bad, we must assume that the soul is a NEUTRAL influence on man. If one fears to make that assumption, we must then assume that some men get bad souls and some men get good souls. If that is the case, there could not be any just reward for being good, nor any just punishment for being bad. Therefore, we must assume the soul is neutral in its influence on man, or that there is no religious soul. Which? Now, if the soul is neutral in its influence and effect on man, of what use is it? What good is it? What is it good for? Is it like a daily journal of our lives? If it has no influence ON man, then it has no mind or will of its own. If it has no mind or will of its own, it has no personality. If it has no mind, will or personality, it has no purpose or reason to act on man. If it has no influence on man, then as far as man is concerned, it doesn't exist. Some have said the soul is our subconscious mind, or our conscience. Yet, our mind scientists tell us, the conscience is the product of our BELIEFS (as taught to us by our home, government, religion, culture and other authorities). They have proven this beyond any doubt. Right and wrong is different in different cultures. In the Eskimo culture, when a person becomes old and a burden on the rest of the family, they feel great guilt if they do not walk out into the frozen north and die. That is, they feel it is wrong (a sin) if they DO NOT commit suicide. The same is true of all our "sins". One man's sin in one culture, is another man's virtue in another culture. It is all in what you have been brainwashed in to believing - into accepting as true. The soul is NOT the conscience of man. His BELIEFS are his conscience. If the soul is a total mystery, how do religious professionals know there is a soul? They do not know if a person has one soul or two souls. They can not tell you if a person has both a good soul and a bad soul. It is claimed, Jesus cast many evil souls out of one man and forced the bad souls (spirits) into a herd of pigs. Is the soul or spirit of man made from the same spirit-stuff as is the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit)? Is the soul of the Devil made from the same spirit-stuff as God's Holy Spirit? If not, does that mean there is an unholy spirit or soul-stuff as well as holy spirit-stuff? Are demons made of soul-stuff like God? If the Devil and demons are made of the same stuff of which God is made, doesn't that detract somewhat from God's exclusiveness? If demons are made from different stuff than that from which God is made, doesn't this mean there is good spirit-stuff and evil spirit-stuff? If such is true, is our soul made from the good or the bad stuff? If it is made from the good stuff like God’s Holy Spirit, how could God allow it to go to hell? If it is made from the bad stuff, how could God allow it in heaven? Are you beginning to see how foolish and impossible this concept of a religious soul made of eternal spirit-stuff really is? Are you beginning to see the religions not only do not know more than you do, they know even less, because you have read this book up to this point. The Hindus claim, the soul leaves the body when the body dies. After death the soul lines up with other souls to wait its turn to inhabit another body when a baby is conceived or born. They reason that the soul must reach a certain level of perfection before it can go back to the spiritual entity from which it sprang thousands times thousands of years ago. Under the Hindu system, each soul gets a large number of lives on the earth. In fact, the whole cycle keeps going until every single soul reaches its spiritual perfection. My fear of such a cycle and system is this. I would be the last soul on earth, trying after trying to reach perfection. I am afraid God and the rest of the "saints" would get tired waiting on old Thomas to get perfected. I fear they would finally vote to continue their eternal voyage and leave old Thomas on earth to finally die once more. There being no more babies born, what would I do then? Would I then be the only "lost soul" in the universe? Last year (1988) I read in a science magazine where some statistician had used his computer to determine that nearly half of all the people who had ever lived on earth WERE ALIVE TODAY. Now I don't say he is right. But I do say, he MIGHT BE close. What does that mean NOW. More than five billion people alive today means that some souls could not have been reincarnated but once or twice and most people alive today must be on their FIRST soul life. Worry about that for a while Mr. Hindu. None of it makes any sense to me and obviously, it doesn't make sense to religion's holy men because religious leaders can tell me absolutely nothing factual about the soul. It is a mystery, they say. It is such a mystery, they have no explanation, no single detail, not even a GUESS how such a thing could be. They then proceed to explain EXACTLY how it works. "You must BELIEVE in the religious soul. You must HAVE FAITH and NOT DOUBT. If you do not believe, God will see that your soul burns in hell fire forever and ever - AMEN." WHAT? Do the holy men not say the SAME thing about every one of their teachings, doctrines, statements and pronouncements? Yes, they do. Why can't they tell us something about the soul? I think I know. It is because, THERE IS NOTHING TO TELL! An old man who lives on the edge of the forest has two tomcats, Pussy-foot and Tiger. Tiger dominates and terrorizes Pussy-foot. Pussy-foot must wait until Tiger has eaten his fill before he can eat. Tiger steals meat from the stove and food from the table when the old man is not looking. Tiger rummages through the garbage (and makes a mess) looking for tidbits thrown away. Tiger takes the best chair in the house next to the fire place and even hisses or claws at the old man from time to time. Tiger brings birds, snakes, rats, rabbits and squirrels into the house and eats them by the fire place. And woe to Pussy-foot, or the old man, if they try to interfere before Tiger is through. Pussy-foot is a gentle loving cat who sits in the old man's lap and purrs and licks, eats only the food put before him by the old man and shows his affection for the old man. Which one of these cats has a "good soul?" The old man dies. The house is cleaned of the old man's stuff. The cats run and hide in the woods. Which of the two cats will most likely survive the death of the old man? Which one is a good CAT? Which one has a good CAT soul? I am betting on Tiger. Who will take Pussy-foot? In looking for the soul, one must ask some questions. What qualifies man for a soul? His brain capacity? His knowledge? His "goodness"? His civilization? His evolutionary history? His ability to reason? His ability to imagine things? His love of life? His desire to have an eternal soul? The only one of these reasons which do not apply to some of the higher animals is, MAN'S DESIRE TO HAVE A SOUL. All the rest are shared by some of the higher animals and this has been proven by the people who spend their lives observing and teaching animals to communicate with man. What right, what qualifications does man have which would satisfy the requirement for a religious soul? How do we know if the man who makes his living by stealing from others, or uses his political, religious or economic power in bully fashion, is a BAD MAN or a GOOD MAN. If man is meant to survive by his wits and will, is not the one whom we consider BAD, the man with the best chance of survival? Doesn't he therefore, have the best chance to carry on the line of mankind on the earth? Does this make him a good MAN? Or, bad MAN? Have you ever researched how kings and emperors got to be kings and emperors? They did it the same way gang leaders do today. (Would you like to add governors, representatives, senators or presidents?) Who is capable of judging who is the bad MAN and who is the good MAN? Granted, this concept does not make for a good God, but are we Gods? What I am saying is, the term "GOOD" is a relative term. If you trace OUR Christian concept of GOOD you will find that it conforms exactly to what the tyrant, dictator, priests or government considers to be good. GOOD IS BELIEVING AND OBEYING. In fact, they are more interested in your obeying than in your believing. This book will NOT be considered GOOD by the religions and by the governments, because it does not conform to their desire to keep people pressed into their molds. The dictatorial leaders of this earth do not like people who are capable of HONEST CLEAR THINKING AND HONEST ACTION. Those are BAD people! Everyone does not wish to live forever. I can think of no worse fate or unpleasantness, than to be confined to a "religious" heaven forever. That would be hell to me. Can you imagine having to go to harp practice and choir meetings on a regular basis? Can you imagine having to look at streets and buildings and God knows what all, all of which are made of gold? Can you imagine trying to engage the credulous, the gullible and the cowardly (saved) wrong doers, in meaningful, creative conversation? What would they talk about? If they are alive today, what do they talk about NOW. How can a person who has grown to love good Cajun cooking, be anything but homesick in heaven? When I remembered red beans and rice (Cajun style), seafood gumbo, New Orleans hot, fresh, long bread and a steaming cup of Cajun coffee, how could I be content in heaven? If I couldn't remember, then it wouldn't be me in heaven - would it? I might even remember how much fun sex was and how content one can be afterward with his arms around his lover while he rubs her back. I am sure I would like to find a weed I could smoke once in a while. I doubt such things can be obtained in a religious heaven. I am afraid I would get tired sitting around watching space gas and dust turn into planets and suns. I would probably get into trouble when I played hooky from Hosanna classes to watch the development of some new life forms on new planets. I might like to take the flying lessons though. Notice, I have kept the concept of a religious soul separate from the concept of "THE SOUL". The reason is, I do not have enough evidence one way or the other. The religious soul concept raises tons of questions and it does not have one single answer. It simply muddies the water and makes the concept of THE SOUL seem absurd. I like to HOPE there is a soul. Because only then could we ever be assured that there is any kind of justice in the universe for mankind. To me, JUSTICE is one of the most important concept which man possesses. Without justice, there is little to no hope for mankind (while he lives, or after he dies). Nor, is there much reason to govern ourselves in a way which leads to fulfilling the most honorable concept on the face of the earth. That is, "not doing to others what you would not have them do to you". If there is a soul, you have one. If there is not a soul, you do not have one. If you do not have a soul, then death is the end of it for you (as far as we can guess). The score will never get evened. The game is over. There is no over time, no recount, no next time. There will be no correcting of mistakes, no punishment for your wrong doing, no reward for your good deeds. If you have not found contentment, usefulness and happiness here and now, you will not get another chance. My advice is to live this life as if it were your only one. If, on the other hand, you DO have a soul, the only things one can know for sure are, you will NOT be judged on the basis of some religious things you did or did not do. You will NOT be judged on the basis of believing some unbelievable teaching or absurdity told to you by some holy man, or holy book. You will NOT be judged on the basis of what religion you believed, or did not believe. Of this you can be sure. Such a religious judgment would be totally unjust and more worthy of a Devil than of a Just God. My guess is, if there IS a soul (and a judgment) you will judge yourself. You will not be judged on the basis of some universal morality, especially when you did not know for sure what the rules of the game were. You will judge yourself on the basis of what you KNEW to be right and just, and what you KNEW to be wrong and hurtful. "Do not unto others as you would have others not do unto you," is the only basis where by anyone could honestly and fairly be judged. In any event, you could begin your self judgment right now and save yourself the trouble after you died. Besides, such judgment, starting now, would help make this a better world for our children and our unborn offspring. THINK ABOUT IT! If there is a soul, those who used their brains (here and now) to think and who made honest and wise decisions, will be way ahead of those who let others do their thinking for them, who were believers. If you conduct your life here on earth on the basis of not doing to others what you would not want done to you, you will be perfectly safe and ready to get the most out of the next life - if there is one. The Clear Thinking philosophy finds the religious soul totally undescribed and undefined by the religions even though they call God as their witness to the claim that the religious soul does, in fact, exist. The religious soul is a will-o-the-wisp, a phantom, an indescribable mystery. Religions know no more about the soul than you or I do, which is absolutely nothing. Zero! If there is a soul, no one knows and none can give any proof of it. Whether there is a soul or not, I do not know. Logic, common sense and a study of the history of the concept and the known facts indicate, there is no soul (religious or otherwise). However, (hold on to your hats) I do see some HOPE in the studies done in the areas of reincarnation, after death stories and split personalities. There have been people born who as children, insisted they lived a previous life. In a few cases, the claims of the children have been totally documented and upon research and/or a visit to the former location, all checkable information given by the children was proven true. In addition to this, there are also the cases of children born with unlearned knowledge of math, science, music, art and such. Then there are the hypnotic trances in which someone tells of one or more past lives, sometimes in great detail, some of which can be partly verified. And of course, the after death stories. Now, if these events "prove" a soul does exist, these same events also prove beyond doubt, there is NO religious soul as described to us by western religions. That is, these souls have not ascended to heaven, nor have they descended into hell (unless Hell is just another name for Earth). They were not religiously judged, rewarded or punished. These events come close to "proving" the Hindu concept of reincarnation. But these same events also ELIMINATE the Christian concept of the religious soul being saved by believing some absurdity, and going through a religious judgment by a Just God. (Sorry, here comes another, however.) However, there are several scientific and psychological theories and claims made which could explain these events in ways other than as a foundation to "prove" the existence of a soul. Such a discussion of this proof is not the purpose of this chapter. You can do your own research in the area, if you are interested. The point here is, there is absolutely not a grain of evidence that a religious soul exists. There is even less evidence that any religion has the KEYS to the future of a single soul (even their own) - or if there is one. Who really believes this fable, this myth taught by the religious who call themselves Christian? Any person who will spend one hour asking questions about it, or who will spend one hour in a good library studying the history of the concept, will certainly come away from that study or contemplation with a new respect for his own mind, for honesty in scholarship and for Honest Clear Thinking. He will bless the day this book came his way. He will free himself from this terribly destructive weapon used by religion and government to make a mental captive of him. Finally, the religious theologians tell us the best evidence for the existence of the soul is the fact that everybody wants one. In other words, a universal DESIRE or BELIEF will produce a universal miracle. If anyone believes that argument, they deserve to be mugged, robbed and abused by both religion and government. Clear Thinkers conclude there is NO religious soul, NO soul salvation and absolutely not a single gram of evidence available to make such a preposterous claim. THE RELIGIOUS SOUL IS A LIE. I would like to say a few nice words in favor of Hell - if there is one. First, there is a lot of work which needs to be done there. The place is in bad need of good air conditioning systems. A chemical factory needs to be set up which can take hydrogen and oxygen and produce water. There seems to be a very powerful heat source so the citizens of Hell will not lack for power to run all kinds of equipment and machinery. There is also a great need for better personal relations. In other words, Hell needs a good P.R. department. The best minds in the world will be in Hell. There will be no lack of invention, innovation, information and accommodation. Only those who learned to think for themselves will be there. All the great minds, the great artists and creative people will be there. There will be no cowards there who let an innocent person (Jesus, Mithra, Hesus, Crishna, etc.) suffer for their wrong doing, who forgave their "sins". There will be no believers there who let other people do their thinking for them. There will be no people there who spent their life trying to get something for nothing. Best of all, Hell is a place where there will be no preachers, no rabbis and no priests. HELL SOUNDS LIKE HEAVEN TO ME! DO YOU STILL BELIEVE YOU HAVE A RELIGIOUS SOUL? CAN YOU HONESTLY THINK ABOUT IT? WHAT YOU DO KNOW IS YOU HAVE A BRAIN! WILL YOU PLEASE USE IT? THANK YOU! the JOVIAL ATHEIST.
what is never usually considered by the patriarchally minded religionist and athiest alike is this: That what Is important is community living intelligently with Nature. And realizing that for Nature to BE death must be too as it is also Nature. And that as we are not only a part OF Nature but ARe Nature, that we are part of the recycling of Nature..... so that...if we disregard that insight and join the gangs totally fukin UO our home, Nature then awareness that awre In Nature (do you get me?) will find them selves afresh in an impoverished environment.....!
Duendy, We are rapidly reaching a state where not only do we udnerstand nature but in many cases are finding ways to control it and manipulate it for our own needs. Genetic negineering is one such path. Anti-aging research also shows great promise where death need not be inevitable. While I agree that we are a part of nature it is not necessarily true that nature will always control us. And the emphasis on community is only a short sighted view of our current dependence on nature and procreation urges. Individulas with open-ended lifetimes will have little interest in procreation or community as necessities. And when such long lifetimes are achieved then what value is left of the SOUL concept?
Of course we can control nature because we are nature. Infact, it would be a bad thing if nature wouldn't understand itself or couldn't control itself. Nature will always control us/we will always control nature. Nature and we are the same thing. Do people really like to live longer than 77 years? Living in a body for 777 years would be hell, IMO. Death of the body is inevitable. Even the earth will die, and the universe, everything that is physical dies, because it had a beginning.
"Just as a man discards worn out clothes and puts on new clothes, the soul discards worn out bodies and wears new ones." "You" can't be the "last" soul left on earth, since life is eternal, it continues forever. Even after the earth has died, life will continue on other planets, and in other universes, forever. The soul is the "self", all souls are part of "God", and "they" are indistinguishable from "God". Indeed, it's an illusion that there are "other" people than you, you are the only existence. When you are close to perfection, you will see other people who are far away from it. It's like that for everyone. The nature of the soul cannot be explained or described in human language adequately, as it is beyond the senses and the mind. "There the eyes cannot travel, nor speech nor mind. Nor do we know how to explain it to the disciples. It is other than the known and beyond the unknown." It can only be experienced when all the sensory activity ceases to impact the mind and when the mind itself is freed from the movement of thoughts and sense objects and the torment of desires, which are the prime cause of all human activity and suffering. The experience comes " When the mind and the five senses are stilled and when the intellect is stilled ....They say that Yoga is complete stillness in which one enters that state of Oneness." "The Self cannot be known through the study of the scriptures, nor through intellect, nor through learned discourses. The self can be attained by only those whom the Self chooses. Verily to them does the Self reveal Itself."
What we have here is a huge failure of imagination. You fail to consider that death as a final extinction of personal existence is the Ultimate Peace, the Ultimate Liberation. When I was a young philosophy student more than half a century ago, one of my older colleagues expressed it thus -- "Remember what it was like before you were born? That will be what it is like when you die". No suffering. No pain. The Perfect Contentment. You must realize that the idea of the soul's personal immortality may appeal to rather basic animal survival instincts, but some considerably large demographics rather don't see any advantage in this, but need to be instructed that only by an exceptional morality can they attain to a Real and Final Death -- the Liberation of Buddhism is the cessation of Immortality -- the Extinction of the Soul. and in Christianity, it is not considered enough to offer Immortality as it is to augment their argument with the supposition that Immortality may be the venue for Eternal Punishment for the wicked. so, really, in a totally atheistic World where everybody fully realizes the pessimistic truth that "everybody is going to die sooner or later anyway" I cannot see why certain individuals would be reluctant to join up and go out in a certain 'blaze of glory'. Look at the predominantly atheistic Scandanavian Populations -- suicide is so common it is a major health issue. Death as a Finality is seen as the ultimate source of Peace. Buddha was wrong. Desire is not the cause of Suffering. Existence is.
Leo, This is gibberish – one cannot experience or appreciate peace or liberation if one has ceased to exist. Again more BS – one has no memory before birth and no way to experience anything after death. These apparent comforting concepts are utterly meaningless if you do not exist. Pessimistic? The record of people dying so far is 100% whether the world is atheistic or otherwise. Like who? As an atheist I cannot see death as anything other than something to be avoided. The cessation of existence simply has no value. But without existence the question is entirely moot.
No, the most likely possibility is that the brain's electricity interacts with the soul in someway. Not all of our decisions are made by the soul. You can actually feel the difference between decisions your soul makes and decisions you make. Along with the brain comes some type of physical knowledge store. The connection is difficult to explain. However, it's either part of the spiritual soul or part of the body. I don't think eating, walking, and languages are part of the soul's knowledge store. They must be part of the physical store, and so the soul must either send signals to retrieve this infomation or, more lkely, the soul tells the body to do a specific learned process and the body then does it. No, you're going to have do more than "one". One guy says he went to heaven during a near death experience. Another says he went to Hell. No one said that man's conscious couldn't be corrupted. But what your saying is explicitly contrary to what Jesus said about expecting nothing. You're assuming the soul is made of "something" when it fact the soul is likely to be a singular creation. When Adam was created his body was created from dust, yes, but his soul was breathed into him, emphasizing the singular and direct line of creation. Well, the substance, size, and shape is a moot point. Even if someone was to describe, I don't how a precise description of the soul could be attained, for it only exists as a spiritual entity not as a physical shape. And at a certain point, there's a need to know basis. We don't need to know whether animals have souls, but it's likely that some animals do have souls. Also, "you" are the soul, which is not to say that some personality elements couldn't be stored in the physically in the brain.
The value you seem to have completely lost. and all i see is soul LOSS. meaning loss of deep empathy for Earth
YORDA Wtf are you going on about, dont talk rot. Wtf again, we try to control the elements, but we are only able to avoid them, not stop them. you'll be best asking someone coming up to that age or past it, I will say I would like to, but I know at this moment it's not possible. why, it would be great. first intelligent think you've said, but the way you've worded your statement, you believe the supernatural will continue. OKINRUS can this be tested in laboratory conditions, where is this spiritual soul in reality(this is just baseless assumption) where inside the body, is this soul located, and where does it have it's knowledge base. but you do expect something dont you, you expect to go to a heaven. no I'm not assuming anything, you believe in a fantasyland not I, so the soul is fresh air. exactly, fantasyland. LEO no theres no failure of imagination at all, it's just knowing, that which is fantasy stays fantasy, else I'd be delusional, having visions, daydreaming, hallucinating. rubbish, it's not freedom, it not peace it's non-existence, your dead see above answer,(non-existences before and after) everbody dies now eventually, so how is it pessimistic. rubbish, it's the end of existence, as I said to yorda I would quite happily live 777 years, there is nothing good about non-existence.
Every night, when you are in deep sleep below REM, you experience a little bit of death. What does it feel like? Death.
marv, How so? During REM sleep the brain electrical activity is very high - nothing like death at all.
The soul might be tested under laboratory conditions, but I sees of know way they'd determine the source of the behavior is the soul. The soul likely affects several or neurons in the brain. Again, the soul is a spiritual entity and may not even have a location in the physical world. But it's safe to say, I think, that the soul's connection to the body is somewhere in the brain. Well, I hope to go there, but I think this is quite different than expect. I also don't know what heaven is like.
Actually, I don't believe in anything supernatural. But I know that reincarnation seems supernatural for those who don't understand it. Just as an airplane might have seemed supernatural 2000 years ago.
if you dont see no way determining the source of the soul, it's a baseless assumption. no it's not safe to say, you dont know. you have no idea, it's just another baseless assumption. do you understand what hope means. HOPE: 1. To wish for something with expectation of its fulfillment. 2. To look forward to with confidence or expectation
Okinrus, Why is this likely? How about demonstrating an example of just ONE. Feelings are generated by the brain. What is the distinction between “YOU” and “YOUR SOUL”? This is just a common use of the term that was generally accepted for centuries before modern science explained reality. The word “soul” or “spirit” is derived from “air” or “breath”. It had been widely observed that when someone was dead they no longer had any breath, it was therefore concluded that it was “breath” that was a person’s life force, i.e. the soul. Many now take such biblical references as metaphors but it seems that the authors literally meant that soul and breath was one and the same thing. Such is the basis of religious concepts – ignorance. Can you demonstrate any personality element that doesn’t require the brain?
yes you do believe in the supernatural. who are these people who dont understand, it's quite clearly supernatural. see below. and please dont say we dont understand, this is not sciforums the stupid community, if you dont know the meaning of a word look it up! reincarnation: Rebirth of the soul in another body. soul: The spiritual nature of humans, regarded as immortal, separable from the body at death, and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state. spiritual: Relating to or having the nature of spirits or a spirit; supernatural. supernatural: Of or relating to existence outside the natural world.
I'm assuming the soul exists here. I'm of course answering it from believer's perspective not a skeptic's. Since the brain is the most complex organ, and the one we least understand, an unknown, undetectible force is likely to connect there instead of somewhere else. Furthermore, the soul, for example, sees using the eyes, but the flow of optical data from our eyes doesn't travel throughout our arms or legs. Only the brain receives this infomation. Like I said before, walking is a complex behavior. It requires rather complicated complications and motor skills, and our minds are not cognizant of this. We are merely telling our body to walk, and perhaps, loosly speaking, adjusting a few parameters, but we know our brain is doing more complex behavior behind our back. Instinct, too, is different. When a baseball is thrown at our face, we instinctively raise our arms . We know we raise our arms up to protect ourselves, but we do not believe we made this decision. I'm not sure what your trying to say here. Do you mean the English word for soul or the Jewish word? I believe the Greek word derived from animate somehow, but I'm not sure. The estymology online says soul (1) O.E. sawol "spiritual and emotional part of a person, animate existence," from P.Gmc. *saiwalo (cf. O.S. seola, O.N. sala, O.Fris. sele, M.Du. siele, Du. ziel, O.H.G. seula, Ger. Seele, Goth. saiwala), of uncertain origin. Sometimes said to mean originally "coming from or belonging to the sea," because that was supposed to be the stopping place of the soul before birth or after death. Hence, from P.Gmc. *saiwaz (see sea). Meaning "spirit of a deceased person" is attested in O.E. from 971. As a synonym for "person, individual" (e.g. every living soul) it dates from c.1320. Soulmate (1822) is first attested in Coleridge. Soul-searching (n.) is attested from 1948, from the phrase used as a pp. adj. (1612). Well, I wouldn't say there is a difference. But "you" can be applied in a composite fashion. When we use the word "you" we can imply some general state to ourselves. For instance, there are chemicals in the brain which can automatically affect how the soul "feels". These chemicals could affect our personality: they might interfere with how we make choices or how we feel, both physical and emotional. Overall, though, A model without the existence of the soul makes it more difficult to explain why "you" exist. If there isn't a soul, the decisons you believe you do result of millions of other cells tricking you into believing a singular you exists. But I don't have the faintest clue how this trickery is made possible.
This is not an intelligent forum, that's clearly seen in your attitude. From your viewpoint I believe in supernatural, because you don't understand what I understand about reincarnation. There can't exist anything "supernatural", that word is meaningless for those who understand everything. Supernatural is merely something which we've not yet understood.
excuse me, my attitude!, your the one, that keeps telling us we dont understand. and you did it again, we are not stupid.
