Formal Debate; The sad truth about the origins of the Christian belief system.

Formal Debate
The sad truth about the origins of the Christian belief system.

The many flavours of Christians throughout the world disagree on many of the scriptural points made in the Bible. This has led to sectarianism and open animosity between the various Christian denominations and cults. This is all very amusing to Atheists. Christians of all flavours all profess to be True Christians, they all work from the same source material and they all profess to worship the same god. So you would think there would only be one brand of Christianity. But no there are thousands of different versions.

There are some things that the majority of Christians do agree on regarding Jesus:-
He was born of a virgin by immaculate conception.
He was born in a stable.
We celebrate his birth on Dec 25th
He was visited by wise men bearing gifts
He had 12 disciples
He was called the Messiah
He made a Contract (or Covenant) with Man confirming an older contract with God.
He celebrated a last supper with his disciples before his death
He died to atone for the sins of man
He was resurrected on a Sunday
He ascended into Heaven to rejoin his Father
He will return to pass judgment on mankind
On judgment day, the dead will arise and be judged
He will send sinners to Hell
He will send the faithfull to Heaven
On judgment day there will be a final conflict between evil and good.
The forces of evil will be destroyed and the saved will live in paradise forever.
He is part of a holy Trinity that took human form
He is depicted as having a halo
His followers drink wine and eat bread which represent his blood and flesh.
His followers are baptised
I think it's fair to say that all Christians would recognise their own belief system.

Now lets look at a much older Persian god; Mithras. The earliest known examples of Mithras worship date back 4000 years to the Persian empires. Mithras was the son of Ahura-Mazda the god of the heavens.

Mithras and Ahura-Mazda were a strong influence on early Babylonian beliefs. Along came the Zoroastrians in the 6th century BC who absorbed Mithras and Ahura-Mazda into their own culture where Ahura-Mazda became the supreme god of goodness and the god Ahriman became the god of Evil.

Soon after this Zorastrian/Babylonian takeover in about 580BC, The Babylonians were holding the Jews in captivity. The Jews were Henotheists at this time but became heavily influenced by the concept of one god of goodness and one god of evil.

In about 350BC Mithras was sent by the Father God down to Earth to confirm his contract with Man.

Mithras was born of a virgin by immaculate conception.
- He was born of Anahita, an immaculate virgin mother
Mithras was born in a stable.
We celebrate his birth on Dec 25th
Mithras was visited by wise men bearing gifts
Mithras had 12 disciples
He was called the Messiah
- Mithras was also the god of Darius, conqueror of Babylon, He was called "Messiah" or Christos by Jews during their Captivity.
Mithras made a Contract (or Covenant) with Man confirming an older contract with God
- The Persian word Mithras literally means "Contract"
Mithras celebrated a last supper with his disciples before his death
Mithras died to atone for the sins of man
Mithras was resurrected on a Sunday
Mithras ascended into Heaven to rejoin his Father
Mithras will return to pass judgment on mankind
- He was known as the judger of souls
On judgment day, the dead will arise and be judged by Mithras
Mithras will send sinners to Hell
Mithras will send the faithfull to Heaven
On judgment day there will be a final conflict between evil and good.
The forces of evil will be destroyed and the saved will live in paradise forever.
Mithras is part of a holy Trinity that took human form
Mithras is depicted as having a halo
Mithras followers drink wine and eat bread which represent his blood and flesh.
Mithras followers are baptised
That's a whole lot of remarkable coincidences all from hundreds of years before Jesus was born.

The Holy book of Zoroastrian was called the Avesta of Zarathustra (Zoraster is the Greek word for the Persian "Zarathustra"). The Jews were well aware of this book.

Mithras Worship declined with the arrival of the Roman Empire and the strong Zoroastrian philosophy of "one true god".

Mithras worship increased again and became very popular in late Roman Culture... when did this happen? Yes.. The first Century AD. Another remarkable coincidence.

From what race did the mythical Jesus allegedly come from? Jews!.... who had already been influenced by The Mithras Cult and adopted many other Zoroastrian beliefs.

Who convened the Great Christian Council of Nicea in 325AD? The Roman Emperor Constantine. And who did he Worship before his conversion? Mithras!!!

The large number of similarities between the Persian/Zorastrian God Mithras and the Judeo/Christian Jesus are just too many to be mere coincidence. The two stories are just too much alike... even down to gifts brought by the wise men to the stable for the infant Mithras, born of a virgin, the son of God, saviour of mankind who died to save us from evil.

It is blindingly obvious that Christianity is just a plagiarisation of the earlier Persian Cult of Mithras. There is nothing original in the Christian belief system. It was all copied.

Christianity has always practiced this art of absorbing other peoples beliefs and calling them their own.... Easter from the pagan festival of Eastre... High Mass, Sunday Sabbath, Holly and Ivy, Decorating trees, Monotheism, The Eucharist. ... etc.

The bread disks that the Mithras worshipers ate during their Mass to symbolise the flesh of their God was marked with a cross... hundreds of years before it became a Christian symbol.

And finally, During the Roman revival of the Mithras Cult, where was the cult centred?...... On Vatican Hill in Rome!!!

Christianity is a false religion with no doctrine of its own. All of it's dogma, it's rituals, it's Key characters, It's very foundation is stolen.

do a little research and check it out for yourselves.

http://www.crystalinks.com/mithra.html

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

this is nothing new, there are countless different prophets that share the same story as Jesus, so why not believe in them? Because it was a better political move in the first century to promote Jesus as the savior than anyone else.
The truth is that Christanity is not orginal, and is no better than anyother religion. So many Christians believe that Christanity is right, and Judism, Islam, Hinduism, ect. are wrong, only because Christanity is a larger religion. Its not right, and its not true.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

There is nothing sad about christian beliefs.

The only sad thing in religon today is the state of islam.

Islam is based on very evil beliefs.

1> that degrade women with female genital mutilation
2> make women cover there heads
3> only women can be accused of adultery
4> making a mockery of marriage by divorcing there many wives by mobile phone messaging
Because a man can have as many wives as he wants at least 12, and mistresses well hundreds.

5> islams inability in living alongside and accepting other religons

6> muslims thinking that by killing infidels, for what ever sick reason that day, they are martyr

7> muslims do not respect man made laws, they only respect the laws of islam

8> muslims are the biggest drug suppliers in the world, cannabis, and heroin have been responsible for the deaths of millions around the world, through crime related incidents, and overdosing
The prophet muhammed was a paedophile marrying a 6 year old baby, and broke every religous law,
i do not recall jesus being a paedophile, so who is the greater prophet muhammed the paedophile or jesus


So when you sit down and think about things, just what has islam done to benefit mankind in anyway


Then think what christians and budhists have done to benefit mankind, every invention or medicine comes from these 2 faiths, these 2 religons can tolerate other faiths



Everything a muslim uses in life is western made, cars, tv, computers, telephone.
right up too the toiletpaper a muslim wipes his bum with was designed and made in the west.


So now we have established the reason for the existence of the christian and budhists faiths, and what they have both achieved for mankind.


Please, please, please tell me for what reason do we have the faith of islam, and why are muslims incapable of benifiting or furthering mankind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

I swear you are one of the dumbest and most racist people I have ever met.

 

preacher, there are many sites like this -- I suggest that you look further. Try to find a .edu history site on mithras, and you will be aware that there is both a persian mithra and roman mithra, and that modern historians have rejected prior theories of them being one. Furthermore, some of your so-called facts are down right wrong. For even if you were to consent to the prior theory of Mithra, the factual evidence says that Mithra was born from a cave, not a virgin.

 

http://www.holysmoke.org/hs02/mithra3.htm

Mithras was born of a virgin IN a cave.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

Why don't you name them for us?

The factual evidence?

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

The whole point he makes is that one religion is just as mythical as the next and plagiagiarizes a good deal too.

Of course, we would like for you to show us the "factual evidence" of any person being "born from a cave".

 

Yes, the factual evidence which was compiled by the founder of the theory that the persian and roman mithra were one and the same. You can use google as well as I can. Do some searches with site:.edu and "persian mithra" or "roman mithra."

 

okinrus: did you actually look at the original post, on this thread, it has a url, at the bottom.
that mentions the roman and persian mithra and countless other so called virgin births etc.
it is truly pointless, trying to condemn something, if you have not read it, it make you look a fool.
the point is exactly how southstar put it, "The whole point he makes is that one religion is just as mythical as the next and plagiagiarizes a good deal too."

 

this as set the cat amount the pigeons.
which jesus do you worship, and when was he born, and whos his father and mother.
brillient

 

Great post preacher but I gotta say as a footnote that that woman has got to be one of the biggest plagerists on the net I have ever seen. You think she could list the sources for what she cuts and paste. I have similar stuff on the religioustolerance.org website. before under the section comparing Christ to other saviors.

http://www.religioustolerance.org

In the religous research community it is generally accepted that Christianty is borrowed from other religions older than itself. I told a Christian friend of mine about mithism a month ago and he said that to him it was belief and as the details were symbolic to him the details were not as important as the symbols they stood for. He is an educated man (ba in sociology from Univ of Tx.) and has come to terms the the historical formulation of his religion.

I asked him, well if Jesus is dead, historically speaking, how can you be a Christian? He would not answer the question and to push the issue further would have accomplished nothing but it left me with two questions:

1) If a Christian accepts the reality that their religion's start is based on the stories of older religions including their saviors birth, can they still be a Christian? Is it all really more symbolic than actual and if they subscibe to the tennets and morals of the religion are they still Christians?

2) The religion as a whole, unlike Judism is not big on religious, research accept by a small group. The congreations are not apt to pick up materials other than the Bible and read for religous knowledge. They don't seem discouraged from it, but neither are they apt to. How did that tradition come about? Why is only research done, in most instances by the clergy if at all? They aren't restrained from it but I suspect historically at one time they might have been and it transgressed into a tradition even though not enforced.

 

what woman robtex, 1, a very good question and hopfully one of the xians will answer it. the church has always kept secrets from it followers. hense why now in this age of knowledge, we have more athiests.

 

Ok, read this article.
http://athos.rutgers.edu/pub/soc.religion.christian/faq/mithra

 

Can someone please start a post on "The sad truth about the origins of the Mithraic belief system" for a change?

 

why is it not the same as this thread.

 

Bravo Preacher...

Yes, modern Christianity is mostly repackaged paganism. But you did not go far enough. Mithraism is a copy too! It is simply repackaged worship of Tamuz (Nimrod was killed and came back as a god to his ex-wife Sereptha with whom he had a child, Tamuz, who became the sun god, born on the 25th of December - or actually on the winter solstice - and we get our letter T from the shape of his alter - a cross). Jesus was born in the early Fall, probably sometime during the Feast of Tabernacles. Jesus was literally a human sacrifice on the alter of Tamuz (which was probably totally overlooked by the 1st century Jews and Romans), but Jesus won in the end.

Virgin Birth is nothing new. If the Genesis story is true then its not too hard to figure out that the seed of a woman (women don't have seed) must be virgin birth. False religions pop up with a smattering of truth - big surprise. I understand that the Vatican museum has a whole wing dedicated just to this subject. The Romans under Constantine very much molded Christianity on the pagan model, to the point where Christianity is almost unrecognizable today. The early Christians would be outraged at what has happened. Even the early Protestants - Puritains - tried to purge the pagan parts, such as Christmas and the Mass, from Christianity - obviously without much luck. The American feast of Thanksgiving is actually an attempt by the Puritains to reinstitute the Jewish Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot).

Modern Catholisism has very little to do with the religion of the Jewish Messiah, Jesus. As true worshipers of Christ, we should probably be leaning much more toward something like Messianic Judaism - except that the Jews have allowed themselves to be corrupted as well (witness the Talmud).

It appears that Mithraism is a copy of Tamuz worship which is actually a corruption of the true religion practiced by Noah. Which actually came first?

 

David, can you point out how collectivly speaking the Jews as a religion and on a whole have allowed themselves to be corrupted?

If what you just said is true, do you than content that the Bible (which is based on Christanity and not Tamuz) is all wrong should be kicked to the curb and all true followers of the Christian religion instead refer to the texts of tamuz?

BTW, I can't find any religion named Tamuz on a quick search. I did find out it is the 12 month of the Jewish calander.......you got a link that explains the tennets of the religion? Please.

I know that Messianic Judaism is an established religion but um...doens/t it just sound like an oxymoron?

 

Wow. That is a load of crap. The Christen religion as a whole has done many more negatives than positives but that is a debate for another thread.

Very true. I do find that many Christians do in fact discourage looking to anything other than the bible for information or guidance. There was a poster here a while back that would claim that all the similarities between Christianity and other religions such a paganism was due to the fact that the others were copies of the original Christianity. When it was pointed out that Christianity came after those others they would simply repeat themselves. The firm belief that the bible is totally correct, teaches all that a person needs to know and can guide your every action would seem to require that you shut out any other sources or possibilities of learning. It is well known that Christianity has its basis in MANY pagan belief systems. Its not surprising at all. Every religion is going to grow out of the one that preceded it.

 

It's Tammuz and that's in Hebrew/Aramaic. The Babylonian name is Dumuzi which is where Noah (who's Giglamesh in Babylonian/Sumerian and is the origins of it all) comes from. And while Noah worshipped Tammuz, the Sun God, Gilgamesh -- who predates Noah (same person, just older story) -- worshipped Utu (Shamash) who was the Sun God as well. Funny how they both worship a Sun God and have the same ark stories (although Giglamesh has many more heroic stories on top of that).

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

- N

 

Whats so sad about it?

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!