Test those Christians by Ammond Shadowcraft The Event There I was busily working at my desk when the interruption occurred. "Hi, are you Ammond?" "Yeah," I replied. "What can I do for you?" "I'm Hezikah Brown, and I'd like a couple minutes of your time." Being the nice guy that I am I agreed to a few minutes. It seems Hezikah is a Born Again Christian with a mission from God. He told me how he believed that Jesus was his personal Lord and Savior, how his life had been changed for the better, how he spoke in tongues and that he heard I was a witch. "The rumor in the office is that you're a witch." "It's true," I answered. "How can that be," he retorted. "Don't you know that witches are going to hell." And off we went... The Question So what is a non-believer to do today with all these seemingly dizzy people claiming to be Christians. It seems you meet these people everywhere. You just can't get away from them. They are in the office, swinging through the restaurant, on your computer network, cruising the beach and parading in that crowded john. Just when you get home for a private, intimate interlude with your lover comes the event stopping knock, knock of the True Christian. What the hell is a normal sane person to do? Go crazy, scream, defecate nude on the floor while in full view of the True Christian? No. We test them. As I presume that like me you are a non-believer too we can have a little fun. Jesus says "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves." Matt 7:15 and "Then if any man shall say to you Lo, here is the Christ, or, Here, believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets and shall show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the very elect." Matt. 24:23-24 John says "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." 1st John 4:1 There are many different types of Christian you know. And they all claim to be True Christians. How is the non-believer to know which is which? After all we want the real thing, a True Christian, not a demon from hell disguised as an angel of light. No Jim Bakkers or Jimmy Swaggarts will do. We want a real fool for Christ. How do we tell the True Christian from the disguised demon? The real fool from the money grabbers? We can do that with a little help. And this help comes from a very unexpected source. You see these Christian critters have a role model they follow. And they can't deviate from the model too much and hope to get to the heavenly entertainment park. Jesus, their role model has stated... "Therefore by their fruits shall you know them. Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me in that day Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by your name and by your name cast out demons, and by your name do many mighty works? And I will profess to them, I never knew you. Go away from me you who work evil." Matt 7:22-23 So you can see that not every person who claims to be Christian will make it to that starry, wonder filled entertainment park they call heaven. True Christians tell me that only 10 percent of those who claim to be True Christians are Christians at all. There's just a little rivalry. It seems they are all in competition with each other for that last 144,000 condos-in-paradise. Now God knows how much real estate He has and how much it costs. Overpopulation being what it is today He has to oust some. Otherwise garbage over runs the golden streets, airborne pollution covers the crystal walls and the sewers back up. Yech! As our volunteer testee saunters up visually apprise them. Do they look serious? Are their clothes nice? Do they look like they own property? Good. We're ready to start, but don't rush. We don't want the testee to suspect our motives. Much of the Christian religion is emotional. As the conversation starts let the testee know just where you stand. You don't want to be duped. You want to talk to a true Christian. None other than a true Christian will do. Ask our testee if they are a Christian? Are they a True Christian? Do they love Jesus? Is Jesus their Personal Lord and Savior? Yes? Good. Ask them how much they love Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit. Are they Spirit filled? Do they display any of the fruits, love, joy, peace, happiness, etc. of the Spirit as described in Gal. 5:22-23? Next we have to verify that they believe in the Bible. Without this we won't have any fun. Ask our volunteer if they believe in the Bible. Do they believe that it is the Word of God? Is it infallible? Is the Bible as appropriate for today as it was two thousand years ago? If the answer is yes, even if not infallible, fun is to be had in short order. The Money Test Here's how we start... Our trick is to confront the testee with moral absolutes and performance tests. Here is the first performance test that we can enjoy. "Give to everyone that asketh thee; and from him that taketh away thy goods ask not again." Luke 6:30 "Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away." Matt. 5:42 Luke 6:35 sums it all up... "But love your enemies, and do them good, and lend never despairing; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be Sons of the Most High: for he is kind toward the unthankful and evil." True Christians are so fond of moral absolutes that I think we should give them every opportunity to experience those absolutes as real, upfront and personal events. In your next testing session, when you hear the True Christian extolling the Rock of Moral Absolutes upon which they stand, go for the cash. It has a nice sobering effect that should in the long run benefit the True Christian. Ask for their money, all of it. Just ask for their wallet. Have them show it to you. Any money inside? Good. Ask for it. You don't want their credit cards. That would be a crime. If there's no money, ask for an article of clothing. Coats and cloaks are good. How about car keys? Do they have a big cross with them? Ask for it. When they refuse have them reread the previous verses, then ask again. Should they still refuse call them a fraud, for that's exactly what they are. Just like Jesus send them away into darkness. They aren't a True Christian. Now should they give you everything in their wallet, the cloak on their back and the cross too, we get to have more fun... The Swill Test Next we proceed with more subjective questions. One of their obsessive traits is to compare their past performance with the actions of those in the Bible. How is their walk with their Lord? Do they follow Jesus closely? Do they want to follow more closely? Yes? Good. Now we start with the serious tests. In Matthew 10:18 Jesus sends out his True Disciples with the commandments to "heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead and cast out devils." Take a skeptical attitude about their status as a True Christian. Again let them know that you want only the real thing. No substitutes will be allowed. "And these signs shall accompany them that believe: in my name they shall cast out demons, they shall speak with new tongues. They shall take up serpents and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall in no wise hurt them; they shall lay their hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Mark 16:17-18 On this you gotta' be a little careful not to let the cat out of the bag. Ask your friend if they have cast out demons. Do they speak with tongues? Have they laid their hands on sick persons who were healed? If so take a bottle from storage prepared especially for the test. It should be filled with (non)toxic, pukey looking stuff that smells to high heaven. Urine and excrement should do. Cap the bottle tightly while in storage. And for heavens sake wrap it in something to hide the mess from sight. In the Bible read Mark 16:17-18 which says that True Christians can pick up serpents and drink harmful things without suffering. Ask our unsuspecting testee to chug the whole bottle. If they object saying "thou shalt not test God" respond by saying that you are testing them, not God. God is not around to be tested anyway. If they don't chug-the-jug you can safely assume they are not a True Christian, only a fraud. Send them away. A note of warning... Be sure to inform the True Christian the drink is toxic. Let them pick up the bottle for themselves. If they drink the potion they take the test of their own free will. Now some might protest that the last part of Mark is a 'late addition' not found in the earlier texts. Perhaps they have confessed to you previously that the Bible is the word of God and is infallible. What happened? Didn't the believe the Bible? Tell them they aren't a True Christian; they are frauds. Send them home with their tails between their legs. Conclusion As we can readily see it's not healthy to be a True Christian. A True Christian is equivalent to being a Bibliolater--one who worships the Bible. Now being a Christian is ok. But being a Bibliolater is a form of mental illness. And it's great fun to let the Bibliolater know of their problem when they interrupt your day. I have about ten other performance tests but the aforementioned are the most exciting. Please feel free to experiment with Jesus' moral absolutes and performance tests. You may find some that are just a much fun as these. Copyright Dec. 1989. Ammond Shadowcraft Permission is given to reproduce or retransmitt this article providing the article is complete, and with the author's name and copyright notice fully intact.
It's so bad it's great! 1, Hi, would you like to talk about God? Sure, are you a true Xian? You bet I am! Do you believe the bible is infallible? No. Then what are you trying to convince me of? If you don't even know whether or not your own damn book is true why the hell should I listen to you?. SLAM. 2, Hi, would you like to talk about God? Sure, are you a true Xian? You bet I am! Do you believe the bible is infallible? Of course. Do you believe the bible is as true today as it was in the past? Well, yeah. Give me your car keys, your wallet, and your little gold cross there. No way! Give to everyone that asketh thee; and from him that taketh away thy goods ask not again. -Luke 6:30 So you see, fork it over or you aren't a True Xian. Oh alright..sigh gives stuff Thanks, oh here's your credit cards. Can we talk about God now? Well I want to be sure you're a True Xian because Jesus says to be wary of wolves in sheep's clothing. Here's a glass of liquid Mark 16:18 says that if you truely believe you can drink this liquid without ill effects. Thou shalt not test the LORD thy God I'm not testing the lord, I'm testing you. If you really have faith this shouldn't be a problem. Oh alright sigh drinks liquid ARG IT BURNS WATER WATER WATER I NEED WATER GIVE ME WATER Chuckles That's the stuff. Now that I know you're True Xian we can talk about God.Gives a glass of water Tries to speak but can only mumble and winces every time he tries. Oh well. Come back later when you can talk again. SLAM absolutely brilliant
I read your post and looked the information from the Bible that you reference. And that might show some people's ignorance of their own beliefs. However, it does not contridict what Jesus has told them. All you have to do is Believe Christ to be the son of God and your savior. To do this, simply obey. Whether i missunderstand the bible or anything else is irrelavent to the truth. I can speak in tounges, cast out demons, heal; doesnt mean im going to hevan. I can have REV in front of my name. I can call myself Christian and it wont mean anything without Christ. Your test mostly just see if the person know what they are doing....nothing more... I have been found misstaken on many things; however, that wont change anything. The priest of that time have been trying to prove Jesus wrong by trapping him. Sure, he was able to come back with a good response. However, that wont change anything. If your goal is to disprove God or just Christianity, traps never work...People try to say "Can God make a rock he cannot move?" If yes than he is not opnipitant because he cannot move the rock. If no than he is not opnipitant because he cannot create the rock he cannot move. However, this is far from truth. Not only can God create a rock that is beyond his ability to move. God can change the laws of reality to where he can move the rock. Dont mean to be rude or anything. Its just these things you show do not disprove anything, but just show the person doesnt know what they are doing.
camphlps:take a look at this thread, Formal Debate; The sad truth about the origins of the Christian belief system. and then ask yourselve, who your jesus is. or which one. the goal of an atheist, is not disprove anything, thats quite clear. the onus is on you, to prove your god exists, as you are asserting it does. you may want to look at the thread, atheism (not a bad thing) too.
anyway camphlps, this thread is done with a humourous slant, and is not to be taken to seriously. unless you have no sense of humour.
pavlosmarcos: I have no obligation to prove God exists. He has sent his prophets and if you do not belief that is your choice, not mine. Mustafhakofi: I see some humor, but i was trying to let him be "aware" that it may not be what he thought it was. I noticed he clearly stated that there is nothing wrong with being Christian, but Bibliolater is "over the top". I find some people are really off the wall, i call them the Gospel Geustopo (im a bad speller).
Who says i believe that...your right it is a possiblity that the Bible is wrong. It was written by man. You obviously have no clue about me. All i told him is that he has a choice and i wont make it for him, nor will i convince him of a choice. I dont believe in God cause of Bible or my parents, but by experience. Whether you know what my experience is or is not, it would not matter. Save your pity for those who need it...
accually it means my answer is my answer and cannot be rightfully judge by you...your basing that on opinion, but isnt that just beliefs...if I dont believe the same you do, will not my opinions be different? Your point is meaningless to mean and it wont matter...neither would mine be any more meaningful to you. So there's no real reason to continue...but I'd guess you might do so anyways..
Okay i reviewed this just cause i felt like it... This is how it would really come down...givin that your response is the same as you posted above... You ask me to prove the prophets. I'd say historical documentation and landmarks (IE Jordan river where the 12 stones lay in the bed of the water. Stones that are not natural there, but in a circle. Possible it is by chance but not likely) You probably ask for more real evidence. Id would acually say the bible. You'd point out contridictions in the Bible. I'd say thats irrelavent because the bible is a series of books written by multitudes of people and that the prophet where historical documentation and that the rest is letters to church which are irrelavent. IE: certain beliefs are contridiction but National history that can be found at Alexander or in Israel give the same information You'll ask me about other "Holy" text. Ill ask why it is "holy" (you might give an response but it wont matter. Just cause its holy dont mean anything to me, and thats all that matters in this case) You might say thats stupid. Id say your stupid and show you thats an opinion and doesnt matter. You'll continue pointing out failures in the bible. I point and laugh cause we already went through this, its irrelavent. You ask me why would i believe in a book that has failures. Id ask you why would you believe me when i have failures. You might point out that it wont make the book true. Id point out that it doesnt make untrue either. You might say that they are all meaningless. Id say as long as its YOUR answer. (that you made that choice that it is meaningless to you and no one else made it for you) And i wouldnt stop posting, wrong or right, cause those are just words and there is NO wrong or right. Even if you prove me wrong wont make a difference in reality. Things are because they are, and not because we believe they are. There is an old saying from China (i think) you can drop a rock each and everyday. It can fall down each and everyday. But what if one day it went up and not down? I may not have worded that "word for word" but the meaning is still the same.
OH WHAT A DAY THAT WOULD BE!!! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! AHA HA AHHA HA HA HA HA HA HO HE HE HO :m:
Heh... I watched that flash skit Q25. Show how ignorant people (the "Christian" on the phone) are from the truth . The word of God is not technicly the bible. The Bible is a collection of historical documentation, some documents written by prophets, documentation for a perspective on Jesus' life and letters to churches to help strenghten their faith.
camphlps: pavlos said this so who is your god/gods which ones. what references source do you have to your god/gods.
So let me ask you this camphlps, what do you base your structure of belief on? Do you just believe in a higher power or specifically the Christian version of God? How do you discern what is truth and what is fallacy in the bible?
Base my structure? hmmm...hard to say...I believed in Christianity for so long, but when I was ressurected by God I realized that even they are far from the truth. I realized that "Truth" is beyond everything. Even facts and proven science. I realized this world is written on rules. But just like anything else, rules can be broken. I realized that is how God can do what he does. I do not know "exactly" what God is or why he is. I do "know" that i will know in the end. So i never bothered myself with it. I mostly belief cause of logic. As I am a logical person. I believe that if 11 apposiles comepletely made up jesus and everything. Why would they die for something they KNOW is wrong? The second logic is from my opinion on other religions. I feel that I have nothing to lose if I do not believe in them. Judisim is a pawn of a religion and cannot be trusted Islam founder can be either two things: A liar, because Gabriel was the same angel who came to marry about Jesus saying this is the Messiah. Or he is mistaken that it was not what he thought it was. This makes me mistrust his ideas. Hinduism, I really dont know a whole lot about it, so i really never think about it. Confusionism is a Phylosophy in my opinion Daoism I dont know enough to really think about it Bhudism is corrupted. Bhuda specificly told his followers to not worship him in any manner (which they do, and by this are corrupted and false). Also that there contridictions, though many other religions do too. And I have nothing to fear in being reincarnated. Kinda where you just "know" it. And also to me, there is no "good" alternitive. it does not prove anything, but doesnt make it wrong either...But I have lived what I feel is a good life so im happy either way.
How can you define reality. If it is what you can sense (taste, touch, smell, hear, see) Then reality is just a world you describe to yourself. Nothing but interpitations of your brain. If you refer to reality that is the truth. Who are we to say what is real and what is not real. We can only describe what we can sense and nothing beyond that. We are blind to what is beyond our reality. I say that this is our reality, because no one possess the ability to see outside what the rest see. Your so called "reality" is a cage to keep your mind in control. You seek to destory what i believe, yet you continusly prove to me that you have no idea what I believe. Why dont you stick to Christians when you try to bash them. You might do better at them, since many are ignorant of the truth.
Matthew 5 17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. The God you worship would beg to differ. Don't be so naieve. That stupid excuse by apologists has long been discounted. I can't remember the link right now for the article, but there are so many conflicting traditions on the apostles that such a statement is baseless. You can also not determine that they recanted at their deaths in a last ditch effort, not to mention the early Christians were persecuted for political and NOT religious reasons. Lastly, you are assuming all the apostles believed in the same thing. This is also baseless and you have no reason to support this belief; the synoptics were definitely not written by Jesus' apostles as has been established. Again, it is tradition that ascribes the names "Matthew, Mark.." to those gospels. If this is the best excuse you have.. Who are you to call others "ignorant of the truth" when your 'reasoning' itself is insipid. All you have managed to do is restate and support Pascal's Wager, which has long been discounted. Come up with something better.
Because I HAVE been beyond this reality. You keep arguing and you still dont know what I believe. As you pointed out that you would remove or whatever you might call "destroy" my belief. You have no idea what it is. As far as to say i dont know what im talking about. Who are you to judge me of what I know or do not know? Can you see in my mind like a book? Can you perceive what I know. Can you, or can you not? For I know that you cannot. But you must learn that just because you might not be able to understand what they "truely" mean, does not mean they are ignorant as you claim. You are a insignificant to me...i care less what you have to say now. Go fondle yourself, whatever floats your boat.
So what I get from your posts camphlps is that you don’t really have a religion at all but more like your own set of beliefs that you have felt out on your own? You say that you don’t believe in Islam because So then why have you chosen the bible as a reference since that argument can go both ways? There must be more to it than that statement. It also sounds like you are a believer in reincarnation. This is directly in violation to the bible in many many ways. Am I mistaken that you believe that there is truth in the bible? You mention that you have been outside of this realm, is this a conjecture based on your belief in reincarnation or is it a feeling/memories that you have?
Could you stop with the inane comments and just respond to my comments? I don't recall ever attacking you or even belittling you so I would expect the same respect. Grow up. As they say in Christiandom, 'what would Jesus do'?
