... I was on holiday last week, in a log cabin, in a forest, in the middle of nowhere. It was Sunday night, and I awoke, aware of a white face at the end of the bed, that I could just make out in the near complete darkness. I felt terrorised, tried to move, but was paralysed, and was really quite scared. I wasn't sure where I was, it felt unfamiliar. I screamed several times, and then it was over. I was sat up in bed, arms in front of me in a defensive position. Now, many might interpret this as an abduction experience. Especially if they were alone when it happened. Well. I wasn't. I've also had 'night terrors' before, although not for a long time, probably some 15 years give or take. So, let's dissect the experience; I was paralysed. Well, yep, this happens to us all when we sleep so we don't act out our dreams and injure ourselves. Sometimes we wake before this wears off, and we can exerperience the paralysis awake. I've had this happen to me twice before, frozen solid, and awake. Pretty scary without the nightmare component. It also turns out I was face down, resting on my own arms when the nightmare started, as witnessed by my girfriend, adding to the feeling of opprression. I sometimes wake up with pins and needles in my hands, as I've been laying on them. The face I saw. Well, this one is easy. I bought a new snorkel and mask a couple of days earlier, and in the display packaging, was a vacuum formed kind of mask, in white plastic, which the set was framed against. It was full sized, and we wore it to spook our dogs, who barked at us when we wore it. It had obviously made some association with the dogs in my mind. Not knowing where I was. Well, in the nightmare, I was sat up , facing the end of the bed, but in actual fact, it started when I was face down, so the entire scenario was in a dream, and therefore, not real, so it could have been anywhere, depending on stimuli. Fear. Well, like I already said, the paralysis is pretty scary without a nightmare, but I was being terrorised by piece of plastic, which added to the experience. So, how do I know it wasn't a real abduction? Well, it was witnessed by two others. My girlfriend, was in bed next to me, who I woke pretty quickly with my thrashing, and who reported everything to me afterward. Also, her sister was awake upstairs revising for her exams, and heard one of the dogs bark in their sleep shortly before I started screaming. I guess, I heard the dog bark, associated that with the mask, started to wake, was paralysed temporarily, and the rest went as described. My girlfriend's sister's boyfriend was also out in the forest at the time, taking time lapse pictures of the stars, and didn't see any alien craft, beams of light, or little grey men scurrying about. So, I had all the hallmarks of an abduction. Some will say 'you had no marks on you when you awoke, there's often sighns of surgery'. Well, I always have a scar somewhere, a fresh bruise or cut I notice after the event. I'm an active person, I get bruises, I'd been canoeing, snorkelling, and surfing that weekend, playing with my dogs, and doing various martial arts kata. I nearly always have some DIY related marks on me. So I often have new marks on me, if I chose to look, I'd perhaps find one. So, unless people can come up with some actual evidence, and show more than I have described here, I have to say that it's most likely they have merely experienced night terrors. Discuss.
Phlog, you do realize thats five minutes you'll never get back right? I beleive you are probly just trying to help people who may beleive they may have experienced something like that for real. I myself have seen some stuff for real. Real crafts, 25-30 of them plain as day with a friend. And even I have a very difficult time dealing with the topic of possible abduction. Thats some seriously messed up stuff. I beleive in the possibilty of it intellectually, but emotionally I will not. I don't want to beleive that. I don't want to know what it could possibly mean if it were happening. And I know that you do not even beleive in the possibilty of UFO's let alone abductions. Trying to convince someone that something doesn't exist is like some one trying to prove to you that it does. Personal experience is a neccessary factor for anyone to beleive anything. For rational people anyways. Otherwise, the world would be even more messed up than it is. Absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence.
I'd call it something that almost everyone has: a nightmare. the human brain is capable of dreaming up intense situations that seem real. I truly doubt it was an abduction. Truly.
That is the point RIP. When I see a fresh face with only a few posts like you, I always look for signs of critical reading, witch you seem to have failed to display. The point of this post was that he experienced many symptoms that are very commonly associated with alien abduction stories, and has logical rational for why it was not an alien abduction. By extension he suggests that other people are probably experiencing the same things he did, but are not applying this sort of logical explanation, and are instead leaping to strange and unfounded conclusions.
Looking at it rationally, if there are aliens and if they are visiting earth, why would they abduct people? If it was me, I'd land my saucer on the White House lawn, plant my flag and say, "I claim this land for the planet Sdaerwgfsh." That's the way us white guys did it and we have little rational reason to think somebody else would do it differently. The whole abduction/probing scenario is just too neurotic to be plausible.
You are using the irrational perceived alien motive argument here. (A favorite of many debunkers). The fact is, you are not "the aliens" (assuming they exist) nor would you have any way to possibly know what their motives might be if they were visiting earth. Even if you did know them, they still might seem implausible when analyzed through a human logical framework. An alien biologically might be alien in his/her/its actions too.
What else do we have besides a "human logical framework"? Abductees and other believers operate within the same framework. Certainly, the aliens' motives and/or tactics would likely be different from ours. But we can only speculate on what those motives/tactics might be, and that speculation has to start from the framework we know. There's just too wide a gap, in my opinion, between what we "know" and the "abduction" interpretation of abduction experiences. Shouldn't we concentrate on what we do know rather than speculate about what might be?
IF aliens were abducting people, why would they do that? To learn something? Why? Because there is something to be learned from the experience, relevant to their culture, or biology. What they learn has some application, therefore. Application implies some similarity, and similarity implies that we are able to make conjectures. Intelligence is the same whatever the species, and the motives will be the same. Aliens aren't going to do things 'just cos' so they can fit in with any wild behaviours attributed to them. So the perceived motive is crucial, and failing to consider a motive doesn't lend the abduction hypothesis any credibility. There _is_ a motive if it is happening, nothing happens for no reason at all.
"Aliens aren't going to do things 'just cos' so they can fit in with any wild behaviours attributed to them" However humans do that... so if you humans do that, whats to say an Alien will not? In the instance of us humans, we have a nasty habit of "Following the pack", the people that don't follow tend to be outcasts and even occasionally turned on by the pack. I would suggest however that you perhaps analyse the fact that our world is made up of different countries that for many years have had politicians fuel one dispute or another, this causes the potential for hatred to befall particular countries tainted towards one another. It's very possible that one country with such a hatred could commit terrorising atrocities on another in the name of 'Science'. You all know if it was proven to be a human in one country or other it could start disputes, wars or embargo's, so what better way of maintaining your countries innocence then implying to anyone used that "Aliens are doing it".
Except the huge thing you are missing is the massive technological leap that is required to get here. If technology advances fairly evenly across all fields, such as medicine and biology, as well as physics and propulsion systems, aliens, even malevolent ones, would have no need to shove probes into people's nether regions, and if they did, wouldn't make such a ham fisted job of it, or need to do it nearly as often as reported. Could you name an equivalent activity to abducting humans, that humans do 'just cos', please? Sure, we capture animals, and tag them, but that's for serious scientific study. We manage to anaesthetise animals pretty well, I doubt they have horrific flashbacks of rectal thermometers. The notion that a malevolent government is doing it is equally absurd. Why? How? Who? Do you really think a foreign country has the capability to abduct Americans from under the nose of the US goverment? Or is the US government doing it to it's own people? Do the US govt therefore, actually possess the items as reported in abductions? Space ships? 'Greys' melting through walls on beams of light? Or are they just hallucinations?
Why do it? How else do you train to kidnap political figures where you want to take them alive and have little to no resistance? Especially since you need them to be disorientated so they can't work out where they are or where they are going. Perhaps abductions are like a new "Serial killer craze" where instead of killing someone, they abduct them and probe/implant them and let them back into the world with their "Tag" on them, to show how close they came to being a victim (or even actually being a victim but not to the point of a body bag) There is one other last case that could be the most likely, it involve "Schroedingers Cat". Schroedinger suggested that if a paradox was created, then a universe could suffer a wavefunction collapse as two universes divide from one. (making 3 universes, the two it divided into and the one where the wavefunction actually collapses due to the paradox.) This would mean the interaction of a "Paradox" with an individual and such paradoxes would only be attributed to Time travel, Where the interaction of individual with an individual from a potential future is an "Un-natural occurance". This would be enough to cause a person to blackout from the collapse since they wouldn't be able to view all three universes at the same time (Thats what causes the blackout, then which ever universe they see when they come round is the one they belong to from that point, although you wouldn't want the wavecollapse universe, because that would mean your dead. Namely you wouldn't wake up.)
Stryder, doesn't the idea that time travel requires the creation of a new Universe somehow make you think that the energy requirements of time travel are therefore impossible? IE, you'd have to destroy one entire universe to get enough energy to build another, and then only end up with one, and therefore, no paradox? Or does the Universe magically split at zero energy cost? As to why do it. That's absurd. You obviously haven't seen _enough_ X-Files. To tag people is get them when they have their innoculations. No need to go to such grandiose lengths.
"So the perceived motive is crucial, and failing to consider a motive doesn't lend the abduction hypothesis any credibility. There _is_ a motive if it is happening, nothing happens for no reason at all. "- Phlog I absolutely agree Phlog. Since you are still new to this phenomena(taking it seriously) ,any awnsers to your question are only going to make this rabbit hole seem bottomlessly deep. Here we are discussing an issue you are quite cautious of in the first place, and to have any derivitive explanations coming from such a lack of credibility will seem ......... crazy. I have begun to do my own research( if you can call it that, no I am not walking around in a white lab coat while doing it), and I have come upon the works of a man who has studied ancient Sumerian culture, and many of the other oldest cultures. Quite fascinating. There is definitely some very solid indications that there has been an intervention of an outside influence on mans history. And not in just one place on earth, but in many places. Back in this culture of the earliest times, they had knowledge of not only jupider and pluto existing, but that the earth did indeed revovle around the sun. They even knew about the existence of a tenth planet in our solar system. Which science has known to exist only for the last few years. Earth was described as the 7 th planet. It was the seventh because that is the position we would be at when coming from the outside in. No none of this is smoking gun, but still very interesting to me. And yes there documentation of these beings coming down from the sky, but that kind of stuff has been spewed forth enough already. Gotta go.
phlogistician, To split a universe doesn't require a serious amount of energy, lets just say you could rig a robotic arm on a computer to move a cup based upon the paradox it processes, namely the robot splits the universe in two just by moving that cup, however the reaction of that cup trying to exist in two different places at the same time will cause a wave collapse at the point of paradox. As for "Tagging" I meant a bit like how trophy hunters work, in the sense that their "trophy" is tagged.
Could you name an equivalent activity to abducting humans, that humans do 'just cos', please? Sure, we capture animals, and tag them, but that's for serious scientific study ever cross one minds that perhaps Aliens seeded the planet earth with life (not saying it was the first life on earth) and are monitoring closely ? But, alas, that is not the true motive of the Greys (who do the abducting) they are with another faction, opposing the original creators (humanoid aliens like the Nordics or Pleiadian) who originally seeded this planet with us. There has been ongoing war between the two factions, there is much evidence in scriptures (angels and devils fighting) and solid proof in some crater chains found in our solar system, plus in our ancient histories. its all there, in words, symbols, murals, and landmarks. In this most recent cycle of Humanity (since christ was born) they (both factions) have decided to NOT INTEREFERE DIRECTLY with our destiny (free will) because it was just causing too many problems. They took a hands-off approach, and that brings us up to speed, up to today. Abductions, there is much to learn about the reasons, motives, and rules of this horrible technique of interrogation/inspection/abduction. You would have to learn about the Greys physiology, how their body works, and who's given them their orders. I dont want to go into that detail because most of you wont want to hear it. Plus im not 100% sure its 100% accurate (my data) . im not saying were all victims, and i do agree nightmares can seem like the same scenario, i fall victim to these nightmares too, even had one with a Grey and another life form (couldnt make out what he was) the other night. and out of fear i woke myself up... wish i could have stayed in there a bit longer but heck, they are kinda scary (for now)
I think you are missing the entire point of 'Schroedinger's cat' as a thought experiment. The Universe doesn't actually split into two possibilities, that's the head fuck with quantum mechanics. The outcome is certain, it's just that we don't currently possess a way to predict it! We have to entertain both possibilities, which gives us a double think, but both states aren't necessarily juxtaposed. Passing a photon through a double slit is a good demonstration of the real outcome. (you know this experiment, right?) Were you implying btw, that a 'collapsed wave' means that the universe is suddenly half the 'size' it was, but relatively speaking, measured internally, we can see no change, and the overall wavefunction for the universe merely gains complexity? If so, this threatens causality, as information cannot travel faster than the speed of light, so the wave function couldn't collapse all the way along itself all at the same time. Therefore, there would be clashes of 'information' as undecided quantum events in one part of the universe crossed with the information in others. Unless of course, one of two (maybe more) things is true. That relativity needs refining and information can travel faster than the speed of light (quantum entanglement might take care of this, who knows.), OR that the entire universe is predestined, and the waveform collapsing describes everything, and there are no real paradoxes, just natural junctions.
