Stonehenge Phase I: An Openpit Coalfield Model; The First Geologic Mining School

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by Garry Denke, Apr 30, 2004.

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    First Stones of Stonehenge

    Dr. Garry Denke's Claim Markers*** Circling/Over Artifacts

    North Western Europe Neolithic stone circles, henges, barrows, and causewayed camps' first purpose were coal exploration sites, being the remains of diggings that yielded no coal. Stones were placed in the smaller test holes, the 'stone circles', because they would silt in much faster than the deeper coal test trenches, the 'henges, barrows and causewayed camps, having no need of markers, due to their larger size. This is how the Stone Age miners recorded where not to dig in exploration for coal again, at such depths where none was previously found. No maps or coordinates were available to them in comparison to the tools used by explorationists today to record dug and abandoned sites. Given the greater quantity of 'stone circles' on the landscape, in relation to the other methods, the 'stone circling' mining exploration technique was the most popular, for it required much less digging work, and time, to evaluate potential coal bearing sites. The different patterns observable today are the result of various Neolithic coal mining exploration techniques, being the four general types mentioned. However, at some of the coal 'stone circles' exploration sites, such as Avebury, ancient miners did actually go back to retest their coal prospects sometimes, digging again in different places and depths, being convinced that a second try would yield the much needed coal, in spite of past failure. At Avebury, for instance, evidence suggests the ancient miners went back using a different technique on another go around, resulting in a 'henge' with two 'stone circles'. But alas, no coal at the populated, energy poor, Avebury. Centuries later many of these prehistoric mining exploration sites were utilized for various purposes that are well known, which anthropologists and archaeologists study in great detail, however no one has developed a comprehensive and conclusive underlying reason for these coal exploration sites in North Western Europe. This is partly because no anthropologist or archaeologist suggested, knew of, or presented any evidence of coal stone being used for any purpose in the Neolithic, and coal's actual first usage as simple campfire fuel remained hidden. Lack of evidence resulted in limiting its primary use to smelting metals, which prehistorically is untrue. The "Stone Age Coal Mining Theory" is based on the color difference of a black rock (coal) and a white rock (limestone), which currently Stonehenge anthropologists and archaeologists maintain are the same, the Theory chalking in the missing record, in black and white, of the exploration, production, and earliest usage of coal in North Western Europe. First evidence of black coal and white limestone being known in Neolithic time was discovered by the German historian, antiquarian, and Doctor Garry Denke (1622-1699), inventor of the core barrel, who cored the circular Stonehenge Mound Ditch located 100 meters (109 yards, 328 feet) E-SE of Heelstone. Roughly 58,967 kilograms (130,000 pounds) 42 cubic-meters (1,476 cubic-feet) of black Late Carboniferous (Pennsylvanian) Westphalian Crosskeys Coal and pale-yellow Late Carboniferous (Pennsylvanian) Namurian Millstone Grit rammed in a 113 meters (~369 feet) circumference ditch in white Late Cretaceous (Santonian) Seaford Chalk outcrop around a high mound pile of white Early Carboniferous (Arundian) High Tor (Birnbeck) Limestone had been found. Because Crosskeys black coal does not outcrop naturally at Stonehenge, its presence with pale-yellow Millstone Grit in the bottom-half of this man-made ditch around a white High Tor (Birnbeck) Limestone reef-like mound situated on a seaward sloping hill suggests Stonehenge was a geologic mining school built during that ancient quest for campfire fuel in energy poor North Western Europe's cold climate unforested areas. The main problem with the generally accepted first cause 'sun worship' theories of anthropologists and archaeologists is this: sun-filled winter days were, and still are, freezing cold during the day time; their so-called 'sun god' had let them down. The Stone Age Coal Mining Theory adheres to the fact that "Coal is a Stone" claiming that it was their hottest 'fire god' that never let the Neolithic people down, especially on sun-filled freezing cold winter days in the Stone Age.

    Stonehenge Mound circled by Millstone Grit and Westphalian Coal
    http://homepages.enterprise.net/sisman/PHOTOs/StoneH1.jpg
    (Foreground E-SE Stonehenge Mound and Background is Stonehenge)

    The Mound Ditch Coal is from South Wales Coalfield's Crosskeys
    http://www.xkeys.freeserve.co.uk/geology/coalfield.gif
    (Stonehenge Altar Stone from Red, Stonehenge Mound from Blue, Stonehenge
    Grit from Pale-Yellow at Rim, and Stonehenge Coalstone from Black at Rim)

    Neolithic Coalfield Quest for Campfire Coal in North Western Europe
    http://www.anima.demon.co.uk/img/megalithdist.gif
    (Non-Productive Coal Stone Sites in Blue)
    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ross.cuthbertson/geol_sw/map uk coal.jpg
    (Productive Coal Stone Sites in Black)

    Today Explorationists Just use Maps to Record Non-Productive Sites
    http://www.geo.wvu.edu/~jtoro/Petroleum/petroleum_figs/game/fig3.jpg
    (Clear Circles having Quarter-circle Pegs are Non-Productive Sites)

    The Stone Age Coal Mining Theory first exposed South Wales Coalfield rim as the hot play for Neolithic coal stone open-pit miners who gathered coal for campfire fuel. There are no pre-Neolithic or Neolithic stone circles, henges, barrows, or causewayed camps on or along the sides of this basin's outer rims. Why is that? The answer is there was no need to explore the rim because bituminous coal is along an easy to see narrow 'road' between black coal and white limestone. This area could quite possibly be the original discovery area of 'old black magic' itself, the first coal ignited with a wood fuel campfire built on a coal seam by chance. There has to be some reason the white Mississippian Limestone, Old Red Sandstone, black Carboniferous Coal, and pale-yellow Pennsylvanian Grit were brought to Stonehenge from this area in South Wales, don't you think? According to the Doctor, who examined the Old Red Sandstone Altar Stone and gathered samples by pale and horse, at Stonehenge, and from along South Wales' pale-yellow Millstone Grit circular rim road, counterclockwise in 1656, with black Coal to his left, and white Lime to his right; "To find coal here," he said, "Just follow the pale 'Grit' road, follow the pale 'Grit' road, follow the pale 'Grit' road..."****

    South Wales Coalfield Limestone to Stonehenge tonnage/date Estimates
    ~400 tons from South Wales Coalfield to Stonehenge Counterscarp in ~31st century BC
    ~300 tons from Stonehenge Counterscarp to Stonehenge Mound in ~27th century BC
    ~19 tons from Stonehenge Mound (Counterscarp) to Heelstone Ditch in ~21st century BC

    a) 1/4 of Counterscarp Limestone (~100 tons) still in place (see labeled "Counterscarp" in photo).
    b) 3/4 of Counterscarp Limestone cored remnants (~tstm) still in place under the rebuilt topsoil.
    c) 56 Coal Fire Pits (the 56 Aubrey Holes) of coated bottom cored remnants (~tstm) still in place.
    d) *Stonehenge Mound is 3/4 of relocated Counterscarp Limestone (~281 tons) (to left of "Drainage Trench").
    e) **Heelstone Ditch bottom-half rammed fill (~19 tons) is Counterscarp Limestone from Stonehenge Mound.

    Identical fossils of the South Wales Coalfield's periphery limestone at Stonehenge

    01) Aclisina
    02) Aviculopecten
    03) Bellerophon
    04) Caninia cornucopiae
    05) Chondrites
    06) Cleiothyridina roissyi
    07) Composita
    08) Conocardium
    09) Delepinea (Daviesiella) destinezi
    10) Euphemites
    11) Girvanella
    12) Hapsiphyllum (Zaphrentis) konincki
    13) Linoproductus
    14) Megachonetes papilionaceous
    15) Michelina grandis
    16) Mourlonia
    17) Murchisonia
    18) Palaeosmilia
    19) Plicochonetes
    20) Rhipidomella michelini
    21) Schellwienella cf. S. crenistria
    22) Straparollus
    23) Syringopora
    24) Zoophycos


    South Wales Coalfield Grit/Coal to Stonehenge tonnage/date Estimates
    Stonehenge Mound Ditch ~113 m (~369 feet) circle circumference length ~21st century BC
    Stonehenge Mound Ditch ~42 m^3 (~1,476 cubic-feet) Grit/Coal volume ~21st century BC
    Stonehenge Mound Ditch ~58,967 kg (~130,000 pounds) Grit/Coal weight ~21st century BC

    a) Crosskeys Coal circling Stonehenge Mound is Late Carboniferous (Pennsylvanian) Westphalian coal.
    b) Millstone Grit circling Stonehenge Mound is Late Carboniferous (Pennsylvanian) Namurian sandstone.
    c) *Stonehenge Mound itself is Early Carboniferous (Mississippian) Arundian limestone and the artifacts.

    3/4's of once full circled Counterscarp used as Claim Markers
    http://www.orionbeadling.net/CSCARPelev.jpg
    *Gold, Silver, Brass, Iron, Wood, Stone artifacts in Stonehenge Mound.
    **Gold, Iron, Wood, Stone artifacts under Heelstone wings carving.
    ***Discovered by Dr. Garry Denke, inventor of the core barrel.
    ****Grit was his horse's name, his pale hung from Grit's bridle.
    http://www.freewebs.com/garrydenke

    Iron (ferromagnetic) was first detected at Stonehenge Mound and under Heelstone wings by Denoco Inc.'s Schonstedt Model GA-22 Magnetic Locator in 1984, confirmed again by Denoco Inc.'s Schonstedt Model GA-52C Magnetic Locator in 1994, not by Ancient Monuments Laboratory in 1994 (unpublished). The claim markers*** for the gold, silver, brass, iron, wood, stone, artifacts, were discovered by Dr. Garry Denke using a coring tool, his core barrel invention of 1656. They are Carboniferous rocks, Upper and Lower: Stonehenge Whitestones, Gritstones, and Coalstones; in the quantities and locations listed above.

    Gold, Silver, Brass, Iron, Wood, Stone, Artifacts

    Anthropologists and archaeologists claim that Dr. Garry Denke discovered neither the ark of the covenant nor its 4 iron wheels at Stonehenge, such gold ark and iron wheels buried directly below Heelstone's flying eagle wings carving facing southwest (SW) at Stonehenge. Anthropologists and archaeologists also claim that he discovered neither Upper Carboniferous rocks nor Lower Carboniferous rocks at Stonehenge whose geological names and descriptions are shown below. His claim markers*** circling/over artifacts following***

    The Seven (7) Rock Types at Stonehenge (3 'New'***)

    1) Stonehenge White Chalk - The outcrop sedimentary rocks at Stonehenge are the Late Cretaceous Period, Santonian Age, calcium carbonates. The Late Cretaceous Period outcrop sedimentary rocks comprise the first (1st) local in situ construction material used by the Stonehenge builders. This material is approximately 85 million years old. These stones are called Seaford Chalk Formation rocks.
    2) Stonehenge Whitestones*** - The oldest limestone sedimentary rocks at Stonehenge are the Early Carboniferous (Mississippian) Period, Arundian Age, calcium carbonates. The Early Carboniferous (Mississippian) Period limestone sedimentary rocks comprise the first (1st) foreign construction material used by the Stonehenge builders. This material is approximately 340 million years old. These stones are called High Tor (Birnbeck) Limestone Formation rocks.
    3) Stonehenge Bluestones - The volcanic rocks (oldest geologically) at Stonehenge are the Ordovician Period intrusive igneous diabases (dolerites), and extrusive igneous felsites (rhyolites) and tuffs (basic). The Ordovician Period igneous rocks comprise the second (2nd) foreign construction material used by the Stonehenge builders. This material is approximately 470 million years old. These stones are called Ordovician Volcanic rocks.
    4) Stonehenge Coshestons - The oldest sandstone sedimentary rocks at Stonehenge are the Silurian-Devonian Period micaceous sandstones. The Silurian-Devonian Period sandstone sedimentary rocks comprise the third (3rd) foreign construction material used by the Stonehenge builders. This material is approximately 417 million years old. These stones are called Old Red Sandstone Formation rocks.
    5) Stonehenge Sarsens - The youngest sandstone sedimentary rocks at Stonehenge are the Oligocene-Miocene (Tertiary) Period silicates. The Oligocene-Miocene Period sandstone sedimentary rocks comprise the fourth (4th) foreign construction material used by the Stonehenge builders. This material is approximately 24 million years old. These stones are called Reading Formation rocks.
    6) Stonehenge Gritstones*** - The sandstone grit, conglomerate, limestone, shale, and coal sedimentary rocks at Stonehenge are the Late Carboniferous (Pennsylvanian), Namurian Age, silicates, calcium carbonates, and carbons. The Late Carboniferous (Pennsylvanian) Period sandstone grit, conglomerate, limestone, shale, and coal sedimentary rocks comprise the fifth (5th) foreign construction material used by the Stonehenge builders. This material is approximately 320 million years old. These stones are called Millstone Grit Formation rocks.
    7) Stonehenge Coalstones*** - The bituminous coal sedimentary rocks at Stonehenge are the Late Carboniferous (Pennsylvanian) Period, Westphalian Age, carbons. The Late Carboniferous (Pennsylvanian) Period bituminous coal sedimentary rocks comprise the sixth (6th) foreign construction material used by the Stonehenge builders. This material is approximately 310 million years old. These stones are called Crosskeys Coal Measures rocks.

    And finally anthroplogists and archaeologists claim that Dr. Garry Denke discovered neither the gold table of Moses nor the gold altar of Aaron located with the balance of remaining artifacts inside Stonehenge Mound, at 100 meters (109 yards, 328 feet) east-southeast (E-SE) of such Heelstone flying eagle wings carving facing southwest (SW) at Stonehenge. No one is sure why anthropologists and archaeologists make such claims with no evidence to back them up. Perhaps they will someday. "Until then... G'day."****

    Further Reading

    1) Denke, G.W. 1973. Stonehenge Phase I: An Openpit Coalfield Model; The First Geologic Mining School (Indiana University of Pennsylvania) GDG, 73: 1-56.
    2) Denke, G.W. 1975. Invertibrate Paleontology of the High Tor Limestone (Lower Carboniferous) and the Upper Senonian Chalk (Late Cretaceous) of Stonehenge. (Arizona State University) GDG, 75: 1-7.
    3) Denke, G.W. 1977. Possible Source Areas of the High Tor Limestone (Early Mississippian) Fill of the Aubrey Holes and Heel Stone Ditch in Europe. (Arizona State University) GDG, 77: 1-24.
    4) Beus, S.S. 1984. Fossil Associations in the High Tor Limestone (Lower Carboniferous) of South Wales. (Northern Arizona University) Journal of Paleontology, 58: 3; 651-667.
    5) Denke, G.W. 1984. Mid-Dinantian (Waulsortian Facies) High Tor Limestone: The First Stones Transported to Stonehenge from the South Wales Coast. (Arizona State University) GDG, 84: 1-4.
    6) Denke, G. 1984. Magnetic and Electromagnetic Surveys at Heelstone, Stonehenge, United Kingdom. (Indiana University of Pennsylvania) GDG, 84: 5-42.
    7) Lees, A. and Miller, J. 1985. Facies variatian in Waulsortian buildups, Part 2; Mid-Dinantian buildups from Europe and North America. (Revised) Geological Journal, 20: 159-180.
    8) Geologist, Denke, G. 1986. The Paleontology of Stonehenge, England. (Arizona State University) GDG, 86: 1-3.
    (State of Texas, County of Stonewall)
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2004
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  3. Starthane Xyzth returns occasionally... Valued Senior Member

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    A proper scientist?

    The geological data is intriguing, Mr. Denke - thanks. Were you hoping to raise an issue for discussion?
     
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  5. Garry Denke Banned Banned

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    Yes. Has anyone other than Garry Denke seen the limestone, grit and coal at Stonehenge?
    (see first post for locations)

    Stonehenge SUMMER SOLSTICE 2004

    Following are some names of the many Stonehenge investigators who failed to published the presence of Carboniferous White Limestone, Carboniferous Pale Grit and Carboniferous Black Coal at the Stonehenge monument. The geologic outcrop at Stonehenge is Cretaceous White Chalk, just in case you forgot. Reason for their failure? None of these Stonehenge investigators knew about them. So the point is, why not go see for yourself what they missed, at the Stonehenge SUMMER SOLSTICE 2004 (now that you know their exact locations, and rough amounts)

    http://www.bentley-kemp.com/Weston/stonehenge/images/stnhng pansheep_jpg.jpg

    Aiding in the celebration, so that all may see such missed Stonehenge rocks at night, is English Heritage, who has generously granted the Public free parking and free admission beginning 2200 hours (10:00 p.m.) Sunday 20th June on Father's Day night. So go if you can, it is defintely an extended weekend event. Join the midnight party round the 32.5 tons of Black Coal circling big roundtop mound along A-344 [100 metres (109 yards, 328 feet) E-SE of 04:58 Sunrise Heelstone]. The Black Coal in that Pale Grit covered trench is right under your two (2') feet.

    http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/...g.uk/default.asp?WCI=Node&wce=8551&nolog=true

    REPORT ON THE EXCAVATIONS AT STONEHENGE DURING THE SEASON OF 1923
    William Hawley
    (1851-1941)
    Antiquaries Journal. J., 5
    1925
    21-50
    (No Carboniferous White Limestone, Carboniferous Pale Grit or Carboniferous Black Coal published therein)

    STONEHENGE
    R.J.C. Atkinson
    (1920-1994)
    PENGUIN BOOKS
    in association with Hamish Hamilton
    1956
    ISBN 0140136460
    (No Carboniferous White Limestone, Carboniferous Pale Grit or Carboniferous Black Coal published therein)

    STONEHENGE in its landscape - twentieth-century excavations
    Rosamund M J Cleal, K E Walker, and R Montague
    with major contributions by
    Michael J Allen, Alex Bayliss, C Bronk Ramsey, Linda Coleman,
    Julie Gardiner, P A Harding, Rupert Housley, Andrew J Lawson,
    Gerry McCormac, Jacqueline I McKinley, Andrew Payne,
    Robert G Scaife, Dale Serjeantson, and Geoff Wainwright
    ENGLISH HERITAGE
    1995
    ARCHAEOLOGICAL REPORT 10
    ISBN 1850746052
    (No Carboniferous White Limestone, Carboniferous Pale Grit or Carboniferous Black Coal published therein)

    PROCEEDINGS OF THE BRITISH ACADEMY . 92
    Science and Stonehenge

    Edited by
    BARRY CUNLIFFE & COLIN RENFREW
    Published for THE BRITISH ACADEMY
    by OXFORD UNIVERSITY PRESS
    1997
    ISBN 0197261744
    (No Carboniferous White Limestone, Carboniferous Pale Grit or Carboniferous Black Coal published therein)

    HENGEWORLD
    Mike Pitts
    C
    CENTURY . LONDON
    2000
    ISBN 0712679545
    (No Carboniferous White Limestone, Carboniferous Pale Grit or Carboniferous Black Coal published therein)

    PENN GRIT / PENN COAL
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2004
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  7. Garry Denke Banned Banned

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    Stonehenge Phase I: An Openpit Coalfield Model; The First Geologic Mining School

    Round about 5,000 years ago ancient South Wales coal miners transported approximately 800,000 pounds (241 cubic-metres; 8,510 cubic-feet) of South Wales "Carboniferous Limestone" (see Map below, No. 22 therein) to a South sloping hill on Salisbury Plain for the purpose of constructing an Openpit Coalfield Model of their roughly circular 'sacred boundary' South Wales Carboniferous Limestone outcrop (modeled Counterscarp Bank at Stonehenge), their roughly circular South Wales "Millstone Grit" outcrop (see Map below, No. 20 therein), and their roughly circular (centre basin) South Wales "Coal Measures" outcrop (see Map below, No. 19 therein), coating the bottom of their 56 "Coal Measures" firepits (modeled 56 Aubrey Holes at Stonehenge) with the perimetre 'sacred boundary' Carboniferous Limestone. (Note the ancient South Wales coal miners had no arial photographs 5,000 years ago believing the white stone circled their South Wales Coalfield home)

    http://www.soton.ac.uk/~imw/jpg/South-Wales-map-1300.jpg

    Today the South Wales Coalfield is mapped and well known. It is a very large basin which measures some 90 miles on its east-west axis and about 16 miles wide. The rocks of this basin belong to the Carboniferous System. This can readily be divided into three main formations; Carboniferous Limestone, the Millstone Grit, and the Coal Measures. Because of the round basin-like shape, the Carboniferous Limestone, being the oldest of the formations, forms a thin outer rim. Inside this is the Millstone Grit, with the Coal Measures being the youngest formation filling the centre of the basin. The lower coal seams rise to the surface towards the edges of the basin. Because the inclination towards the centre is much steeper on the south and east boundaries, the working of coal in more recent times was confined to the north and west edge of the coalfield. As a result, the South Wales Coalfield was later developed on an extensive scale by the Iron Masters of North Glamorgan and Monmouthshire.

    In the Stone Age, Before the wheel, Coalfire was king...

    The remains of an ancient African barbecue suggest our ancestors had learned to control fire nearly 1.5 million years ago. Using a new method to analyse heated bone, researchers from the Transvaal Museum in Pretoria, South Africa, and Williams College in Williamstown, Pennsylvania, have pushed back the first instance of controlled fire use by a million years. The researchers analysed burned bones collected in South Africa's Swartkrans region in 1998. Some bones appeared to have been heated to higher temperatures than others. Hearth fires can attain temperatures nearly 300 degrees Celsius higher than brush fires. For this reason, scientists suspected the bones were evidence of early fire use. Now, a technique called electron spin resonance analysis proves that the bones must have been heated to intense campfire temperatures in order to reduce so much of the material to pure carbon. One of two pre-human species living in the area at that time, Australopithecus robustus and Homo erectus, likely cooked the bones. The next-oldest evidence of fire use, in Zhoukoudian, China, is 400,000 to 250,000 years old. In comparison, Stonehenge Phase I, is 5,000 years old.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3557077.stm

    1) Denke, G.W. 1973. Stonehenge Phase I: An Openpit Coalfield Model; The First Geologic Mining School (Indiana University of Pennsylvania) GDG, 73: 1-56.
    2) Denke, G.W. 1975. Invertibrate Paleontology of the High Tor Limestone (Lower Carboniferous) and the Upper Senonian Chalk (Late Cretaceous) of Stonehenge. (Arizona State University) GDG, 75: 1-7.
    3) Denke, G.W. 1977. Possible Source Areas of the High Tor Limestone (Early Mississippian) Fill of the Aubrey Holes and Heel Stone Ditch in Europe. (Arizona State University) GDG, 77: 1-24.
    4) Beus, S.S. 1984. Fossil Associations in the High Tor Limestone (Lower Carboniferous) of South Wales. (Northern Arizona University) Journal of Paleontology, 58: 3; 651-667.
    5) Denke, G.W. 1984. Mid-Dinantian (Waulsortian Facies) High Tor Limestone: The First Stones Transported to Stonehenge from the South Wales Coast. (Arizona State University) GDG, 84: 1-4.
    6) Denke, G. 1984. Magnetic and Electromagnetic Surveys at Heelstone, Stonehenge, United Kingdom. (Indiana University of Pennsylvania) GDG, 84: 5-42.
    7) Lees, A. and Miller, J. 1985. Facies variatian in Waulsortian buildups, Part 2; Mid-Dinantian buildups from Europe and North America. (Revised) Geological Journal, 20: 159-180.
    8) Geologist, Denke, G. 1986. The Paleontology of Stonehenge, England. (Arizona State University) GDG, 86: 1-3. (State of Texas, County of Stonewall, Deed Records, Volume 393, Page 851-853)
     
  8. Starthane Xyzth returns occasionally... Valued Senior Member

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    Perhaps we need a separate forum for serious researchers to post extracts from their latest papers. People who wish to start a thread based on one can then link it through to the appropriate subject-based discussion forum.
     
  9. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,089
    Actually, what I want to know is what you hope to achieve by posting this here?
    I mean, rock type is kind of interesting, but of little point on a discussion forum unless you have something to say about it.
    Furthermore, I note many of the referenced papers are his own, over a long period of time, which again brings up the question os why are you posting this here?

    Although the use of limestone is interesting, because of its whiteness and use of white in various other stone circles and monuments of that era. Such as 3 henges in north Yorkshire that were found to have a coating of white mineral on the surface of the mounds. exactly why is open to speculation, but it might have helped its use as an observatory, or else been important in a ritual colour sense.
     
  10. Garry Denke Banned Banned

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    Do rocks Burn in Circles?

    The Neolithic discovery of 'magic rocks which burn' in circular South Wales Coalfield gave rise not only to Stonehenge being built, but to the Neolithic stone circles and henges built throughout Western Europe.

    Neolithic News Flash... Rocks Burn In Circles...

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    The news of 'magic rocks which burn in circles' spread like wildfire...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    Last edited: May 8, 2004
  11. Garry Denke Banned Banned

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    Hi Guthrie!

    Could you be so kind as to name the three (3) henges in north Yorkshire that were found to have a coating of white mineral on the surface of their mounds?

    That is very interesting.

    Do you know of any other henges having the South Wales Coalfield white Carboniferous Limestone circling their outermost portion(s) other than Stonehenge?

    Thank you!

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    Garry
     
  12. eburacum45 Valued Senior Member

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  13. Garry Denke Banned Banned

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    Hi eburacum!

    MSN is absolutely wonderful, Yahoo!, it definitely saves time.

    Thank you!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Garry
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2004
  14. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    I wonder why these writers feel so compelled to keep tossing in the adjective "Neolithic."

    "Neolithic" is simply the final millennia of the stone age -- all human societies that had not discovered metallurgy. The hardest, strongest substance they had to work with was stone. Nonetheless, the "Late Neolithic" people had fired ceramics, woven fiber, stonemasonry, animal husbandry, cultivated crops, and ultimately the first cities, which were built of stone.

    In other words, the very earliest "civilizations" overlapped the "Neolithic" period. The wonder of finding henges and other presumably ceremonial stone works at Neolithic sites is tempered by the fact that at other Neolithic sites people had built small cities using stone technology.

    It's not like the pre-Indo-European inhabitants of Europe were "barbarians." If they had not been overrun and marginalized by two or three waves of Indo-European invaders in the closing millennia B.C.E., there's no reason to believe that they would not have eventually built cities and progressed into the Bronze Age, as the indigenous people of Latin America managed to do before the Indo-Europeans belatedly overran their civilizations.

    In fact, we have evidence of one pre-Indo-European true Bronze Age civilization in Europe: the Etruscans. For all we know they may have been the descendants of the people who built those henges.
     
  15. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,089
    I cant remember the name, it was on TV a few weeks ago, I caught the last half of the program. It was near the Penines, in an area with limestone sink holes.

    AS for rocks that burn, the only ones I have heard of is one kind, which has an outcrop in California, I have a friend visiting nearby who'll hopefully bring back a sample. Otherwise, your left with porous rocks saturated with petroleum and carbonaceous residues and materials.
     
  16. Starthane Xyzth returns occasionally... Valued Senior Member

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    If that's true, then the pre-Indo-Europeans won out in the long run. One of the Etruscan republics eventually became Imperial Rome. Needless to say, Roman-derived culture and languages still dominate much of the World.
     
  17. Garry Denke Banned Banned

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    Stonehenge SUMMER SOLSTICE 2004

    Stonehenge SUMMER SOLSTICE 2004

    Following are some names of the many Stonehenge investigators who failed to published the presence of Carboniferous White Limestone, Carboniferous Pale Grit and Carboniferous Black Coal at the Stonehenge monument. The geologic outcrop at Stonehenge is Cretaceous White Chalk, just in case you forgot. Reason for their failure? None of these Stonehenge investigators knew about them. So the point is, why not go see for yourself what they missed, at the Stonehenge SUMMER SOLSTICE 2004 (now that you know their exact locations, and rough amounts)

    http://www.bentley-kemp.com/Weston/stonehenge/images/stnhng pansheep_jpg.jpg

    Aiding in the celebration, so that all may see such missed Stonehenge rocks at night, is English Heritage, who has generously granted the Public free parking and free admission beginning 2200 hours (10:00 p.m.) Sunday 20th June on Father's Day night. So go if you can, it is defintely an extended weekend event. Join the midnight party round the 32.5 tons of Black Coal circling big roundtop mound along A-344 [100 metres (109 yards, 328 feet) E-SE of 04:58 Sunrise Heelstone]. The Black Coal in that Pale Grit covered trench is right under your two (2') feet.

    http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/...g.uk/default.asp?WCI=Node&wce=8551&nolog=true

    REPORT ON THE EXCAVATIONS AT STONEHENGE DURING THE SEASON OF 1923
    William Hawley
    (1851-1941)
    Antiquaries Journal. J., 5
    1925
    21-50
    (No Carboniferous White Limestone, Carboniferous Pale Grit or Carboniferous Black Coal published therein)

    STONEHENGE
    R.J.C. Atkinson
    (1920-1994)
    PENGUIN BOOKS
    in association with Hamish Hamilton
    1956
    ISBN 0140136460
    (No Carboniferous White Limestone, Carboniferous Pale Grit or Carboniferous Black Coal published therein)

    STONEHENGE in its landscape - twentieth-century excavations
    Rosamund M J Cleal, K E Walker, and R Montague
    with major contributions by
    Michael J Allen, Alex Bayliss, C Bronk Ramsey, Linda Coleman,
    Julie Gardiner, P A Harding, Rupert Housley, Andrew J Lawson,
    Gerry McCormac, Jacqueline I McKinley, Andrew Payne,
    Robert G Scaife, Dale Serjeantson, and Geoff Wainwright
    ENGLISH HERITAGE
    1995
    ARCHAEOLOGICAL REPORT 10
    ISBN 1850746052
    (No Carboniferous White Limestone, Carboniferous Pale Grit or Carboniferous Black Coal published therein)

    PROCEEDINGS OF THE BRITISH ACADEMY . 92
    Science and Stonehenge

    Edited by
    BARRY CUNLIFFE & COLIN RENFREW
    Published for THE BRITISH ACADEMY
    by OXFORD UNIVERSITY PRESS
    1997
    ISBN 0197261744
    (No Carboniferous White Limestone, Carboniferous Pale Grit or Carboniferous Black Coal published therein)

    HENGEWORLD
    Mike Pitts
    C
    CENTURY . LONDON
    2000
    ISBN 0712679545
    (No Carboniferous White Limestone, Carboniferous Pale Grit or Carboniferous Black Coal published therein)

    PENN GRIT / PENN COAL
     
  18. Garry Denke Banned Banned

    Messages:
    139
    Thank you.
    Coal burns.
     
  19. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

    Messages:
    5,874
    A Deconstruction of Stonehenge Pseudoscience

    My first inclination is to believe that Denke (this one, not the dead one) is simply a pseudoscientist. This is based, first, on the fact that he is spamming message-boards throughout the Internet with the exact same posts, all of which are ambiguous as best in regards to what he's really trying to say.

    Second, Denke (note, I’m referring to the sciforums member and not the long-deceased Denke unless otherwise stated) makes several wild statements. "Wild" in that they don't appear to have a direct point, but of the indirect ones that might be inferred, he's either stating that traditional science is wrong, misguided or purposely conspiring to cover up or conceal information.

    Denke talks of ancient miners the failure of anthropologists and archaeologists to acknowledge coal use of Neolithic times. In addressing this, I'd ask Denke what is the "evidence" that he cites as suggesting "ancient miners went back to using a different technique on another go around…?" I'd also point out that in dating Stonehenge, a residual bit of CuCO3 was excavated (Gowland, 1902) at 7ft on a sarsen, indicating the presence of a copper or bronze implement of some sort. While it appears accepted that the earliest features at Stonehenge are certainly of the Neolithic period, the henges and walls, if not the Stonehenge Ditch, are probably of early Bronze Age or a period of transition between. It's clear that the methods that the builders used to create the megaliths were stone and wood and not metallic.

    But to suggest that the site was a coalmine is reaching a bit. Indeed, there is more evidence to suggest that the site originated as a gather spot for pastoralists as a means of coming together, redistributing wealth, and preparing for the winter months (Peake, 1945); a corral, if you will. The evolution of the site might suggest, if comparison could be made with Greek religion of the same period, that necessity created rituals that became religion. Stonehenge has a clear altar and boundaries that separate the sacred from the secular, much like the tenemos of Greek sanctuaries.

    In answering Denke's claim that anthropologists and archaeologists have never explored or acknowledged coal as a fuel source in lithic periods, I'd point him to Théry, et al (1996). In this paper, the authors describe lignite coal fragments found in a hearth, which had likely origins in nearby outcroppings. But I will concede that without evidence to suggest that coal was a reason for Stonehenge, archaeologists aren't likely to do more than speculate on the idea. Perhaps Denke has more evidence than the geologic strata?

    Which brings me to the criticism of Denke's suggestion that anthropologists and archaeologists ignore the geology of the area and, therefore, miss the true reason of Stonehenge. It seems more likely that the above scientists and researchers don't refer to the outcroppings and scarps in the works Denke cites because they have little or no relevance on their work. The source eludes me, but I knew without visiting the site that Stonehenge resides on carboniferous limestone/chalk. Doubtless it was mentioned in one or more of the texts that I've read that discuss the site.

    The most telling comments that Denke makes in his "work" is in regard to those he provides about Dr. Denke (the original) and the discovery of the "ark of the covenant" and it's "4 iron wheels at Stonehenge" as well as "the gold table of Moses" and the "gold altar of Aaron." I couldn't tell if he was saying that anthropologists and archaeologists were concealing the facts of this "evidence" or.. . ?

    Perhaps Denke has a good idea with investigating the idea of coal use in the vicinity of Stonehenge or that it was integral to the overall purpose of the site, but he misses the mark with this statement, "Because Crosskeys black coal does not outcrop naturally at Stonehenge, its presence [...] suggests Stonehenge was a geologic mining school built during that ancient quest for campfire fuel in energy poor North Western Europe's cold climate unforested areas."

    A "mining school?" Come on Denke, give us more to go on than what you have! Some real citations might help as well. Who states crosskeys black coal is found where it was and that it is in situ? What does GDG stand for? I couldn't find this journal.

    Based on: the amount of spam Denke has done across many, many boards on the Internet; the fact that he cites no real sources; that he criticizes mainstream science whilst using the Internet medium instead of peer-reviewed journals; and the ambiguous remarks about supernatural icons of Christianity found (or not?) at the site, I vote that this entire thread be merged with his other two and moved to the Pseudoscience forum.

    References:

    Gowland, W. (1902). The recent excavations of Stonehenge with inferences as to the origin, construction and purpose of that monument. Man. Vol 2, pp 7-11

    Peake, H. (1945). The earliest structure at Stonehenge. Man. Vol 45 (Jul-Aug), pp. 74-78.

    Théry I., Gril J., Vernet J. L., Meignen L. and Maury J. (July 1996). Coal used for Fuel at Two Prehistoric Sites in Southern France: Les Canalettes (Mousterian) and Les Usclades (Mesolithic). Journal of Archaeological Science, Vol 23, Iss 4, pp 509-512.
     
  20. Starthane Xyzth returns occasionally... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,465
    Just did a search for it. Most of the results under CDG were engineering-related, with a few links to caving clubs - but nothing which looked like a scientific journal.

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  21. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

    Messages:
    5,874
    Its either something obscure or not a journal at all. That he lists it with papers associated with his name and two different universities that don't have graduate programs in geology is interesting. Arizona State doesn't even have an undergrad geology department.
     
  22. Starthane Xyzth returns occasionally... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,465
    Then when I thanked him for starting this thread, perhaps the best part of my post was the question mark(?) after "proper scientist".
     
  23. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

    Messages:
    5,874
    Heh... the guy's been spamming the internet almost since the internet began... I wouldn't be surprised if he bugged the hell out of everyone in FidoNet in the 80's

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    He ultimately relates stonehenge to biblical prophecy and supernatural artifacts of biblical mythology and attempts to use science to support supernatural hypotheses. Pseudoscience at its finest.
     
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