Bush & Pentagon poison more than Hussein

http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=604

 

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http://www.reason.com/rb/rb032603.shtml

 

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DU is unsafe - otherwise we would use it , stokes ...

 

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*yawn*

Why start a thread and just post a link? Give us some comments of your own to go with it at least.

 

We don't use it?

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The Military medical officer given the task of creating the manuals used by the military to handle DU mutitions and armor has gone public to claim that the manuals are not followed, that many die due to the radiation exposure, that the numbers of casualities in skirmishes using the items are far larger and will continue to occur for thousands of years. In other words, things are not all roses and apple pie. I or someone else, would be neat to locate that guy's informative web site. In the mean time, here's another:
http://www.chugoku-np.co.jp/abom/uran/index_e.html

 

well ...."we" don´t live in usOFa

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Radiation exposure? You and others do realize that DU is less radioactive than natural pitchblende Uranium ore, don't you? And even so, it is an alpha emitter. Alphas are stopped by the dead skin on the surface of your body, your clothes, or six inches of air. Radiation is the LAST consideration for DU HAZMAT procedures. I have several 25mm DU chaingun rounds in my desk drawer here, and I'm reasonably sure that I have some yellow cake (pitchblende ore) in a jar at home. That's right. A jar.

The only dangerous aspect of DU is that it is a heavy metal, and like mercury or lead, can cause long term defecits if exposure to it is excessive. I'm sorry, but I'll trust the WHO/UN/EU/USA's words over those of an ex-army physician attention whore. Especially since he makes the blatant mistake of overrating the radiological hazards of DU.

Pentax: You obviously are not aware that the US is not the only nation to have DU penetrating munitions in their inventories. Sure, the US uses them more, but that's only natural. We're not as gun-shy as some.

 

Navy report claiming that Alpha, Beta and Gamma radiation are associated with DU exposure
http://traprockpeace.org/depleted_uranium_milner.html

Major Doug Rokke, Ph.D., former Director of the U.S. Army Depleted Uranium (DU) Project in the aftermath of the Gulf War, (not retired, not "ex-army") has much reported about him and his findings at http://traprockpeace.org/depleteduranium.html

 

DU emits gammas from small order spontaneous fission. The gamma emissions are less than .04 Mev, or one hundredth the dose rate of a 1/4 second dental X-ray. Plus, it's unpredictable chiefly due to the volatility of U-238's radiological cross section.

Beta particle radiation is nonexistent.

Alpha radiation, the only quantifiable and documentable type, is 4.20 Mev intensity, and stopped by a single sheet of paper, or two centimeters of air.

http://www.ornl.gov/sci/isotopes/r_u238.html

I find it interesting that his findings stand alone against the World Health Organization:

http://www.who.int/ionizing_radiation/pub_meet/Depluranium4.pdf

 

You know stokes, the reason that schools and colleges with alpha and beta radiation sources for physics experiments are so careful is that though they're stopped easily enough (a sheet of paper for alpha), if you are unfortunate enough to get the stuff inside you - either through inhalation or ingestion - you're in trouble because it will play merry hell with the tissue local to the particles in question.

And since DU rounds vapourise and spall during the impact....

Well, I wouldn't volunteer for the clean-up duty with just a mop and bucket.

 

And Consider Sparks that the residue of those DU shells are in the Iraqi sand, which kids, and adults alike breathe. Funny that cancer rates exploded in the South of the country...one can only wonder, why? Oh why? hmmm....

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That Navy Material Safety Data Sheet that I posted before above is available in higher resolution at http://traprockpeace.org/DUMSDS14MAY84pg3of3.jpg

Mmmm, "Greater than 200 mRem/hr on surface of bare DU penetrator (mainly from beta radiation at surface)." Sheesh, apparently the Navy directly disagrees with you Stokes. What is the suggested limit, 100 mRem per year?

BTW, that URL you gave for info. on U238 makes it look kind of harmless, no beta or gamma radiation but then so does the listing on the same site for U235.

Hey Stokes! Did you read that PDF file you referred to? It confirms the 200 mRem/hr bare handling of the penetrator material as well as attributing such capability to the dust (beta and gamma). It also talks about the daughter isotopes and their beta and gamma radiation releases. Did you also catch the section referring to the "linear no-threshold hypothesis?" Seems toxicity is basically determined by weighing risk versus rewards. Do you know of any organization that is weighing the risks involved for the billion of years of half life? Seems to me the only way it could be considered acceptable is to think only short term. This stuff is liable to be killing people for billions of years.

 

That's all well and good, but the spall fragments and oxidization from DU penetrators are localized to within a few meters around the target vehicle. You are probably aware of the extensive surveying that's been done in Kosovo following the use of DU bomb casings. It's a non-issue.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. It also might have something to do with all those oil wells that Saddam liked to set on fire every time he got scared.

That MSDS is either wrong or badly written and referring to something else. I suspect it was culled in a pub correction (which the Navy does annually) because the copy they have of it is of extremely poor quality. I'm beginning to wonder if whoever got their hands on it grabbed it out of a burn dumpster somewhere, and then scanned it in. If it was truly legitimate I would expect to see a higher quality rendering, wouldn't you?

Uranium 238 does not release beta particles during alpha decay. Period. Once U-238 has decayed into Thorium-234, it spends 24.5 days udergoing beta decay, but it's a 4.5 billion year wait to get there, so that incidental beta activity is utterly irrelevent. How many sources do you need to see before you believe it? Or are you an ideologue who simply refuses to accept anything contrary to your predetermined position? I grabbed the Oak Ridge NL link right off google really quickly, but I can find a more reputable source for you if you want. You know, in case a national laboratory isn't good enough for you.

Here's a graphic of U-238's decay process. Note that the first stage is an alpha decay, and it spends 4.5 billion years there:

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Btw, the NRC-established average exposure in the US from all sources is 360 millirems annually.

Because it is harmless. I really do not understand the kneejerk outrage over what may as well be any other metal. All three isotopes of Uranium are almost completely innocuous, and even the less-stable transuranics like Plutonium-239 are pretty docile, provided they have a lacquer coat to prevent chemical reactions. All forms of Uranium have half lives in the billions of years, and those long half lives are precisely why they are not dangerous. The longer an element's half life is, the less intense its decay emissions will be. If you hold a vial of Cesium-137 in your hand for an hour you'll walk away with a nasty burn, but that same vial of Cs-137 will be gone in a few weeks. Very few elements are radioactive enough to pose a long-term hazard to anybody, because you're looking at elements with half lives long enough to pose a disposal problem, but short enough to translate into intense decay emissivity.

Well then it's been killing people for billions of years already, because the U-238 falling silent now is as old as the earth itself.

If you have some long term data tabulation that can unequivocally quantify DU's inherent risks, then by all means, please post it. Your source is poorly organized and offers only a modicum of dodgy data, most of which lies in stark contrast with other verifiably current sources. Furthermore, it is overtly pushing an ancillary and conflicting agenda, which is all but preclusive to rational thought. I'm tempted to just respond to it with "lol, internet".

 

Oh you mean the one's in Kuwait? Oddly cancer rates haven't exploded there...if anywhere it would go up there. Jezze that was a verge ad hom Stokes, nice try but's let's be cognitive next time.

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um, no, not really.

 

Ehm...yes because you insulted my intelligence along the way. I wish there were songs for people like you.

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It also might have something to do with all those oil wells that Saddam liked to set on fire every time he got scared.

you forced saddam to do this

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say stokes , even if DU is not responsible for this explosion in the cancer rates .... will you clean up the country ?

 

Stokes, I dare say that science, facts, logic, call it reason, do not appear to be your cup of tea. Seems you don't mind contradicting yourself and that in your eyes only the volume of words matters.

I'm afraid that many individuals in positions of authority, perhaps a requirement to move into such offices, appear to have this same respect for force over reason. It means the ultimate answer can only be found in creating a viable society rather than having to depend on this power hungry gang warfare anarchy that holds the world in its death grip at the moment. I am long time ready to find a real way to organize. Somebody let me know if you figure out how.

Stokes, give my regards to the March Hare.

 

Stokes, I dare say that science, facts, logic, call it reason, do not appear to be your cup of tea. Seems you don't mind contradicting yourself and that in your eyes only the volume of words matters.


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