How can Humans be Primates?

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by VitalOne, Jul 3, 2003.

  1. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    Biologically, Humans are considered primates. Humans are different from all other primates. All Primates have 48 chromosomes, we have 46 chromosomes. I don't under stand how we can be 98% alike with Chimpanzees if we have 2 chromosomes less, thats alot of DNA. What would cause evoulution to jump from 48 to 46 chromosomes, why is there no missing link?
     
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  3. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Not all primates have 48 chromosomes.

    The way we compare DNA is rather simple, we take the DNA from both subjects, single strand it and hybridize them, the hybridized stands have nucleotides that match up and more match up the more similar or related the two DNA sources are to each other, we then heat up the hybridized DNA and the hotter the DNA can remain double stranded the more nucleotides matched up. Ok so I suck at explaining things

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    Here read this: http://www.physicspost.com/articles.php?articleId=31
     
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  5. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    So we're only 95% like Chimpanzees. Its pretty weird that we lost 2 chromosomes in evolution since most of time if a mutation occurs that reduces or increases a chromosome it results in horrible effects. I haven't heard of a primate other than humans that doesn't have 48 chromosomes, can you give an example?
     
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  7. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Did you read my link it explains what happen to our missing chromosome.

    Rhesus monkeys for example have 42,
     
  8. SwedishFish Conspirator Registered Senior Member

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    ::eats your brain::
     
  9. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    You are right, and I was wrong

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    . Thanks for explaining what scientists think happened to our chromosomes.
     
  10. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    aah you don't need to do that.
     
  11. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    If you look at other orders within the class Mammals, such as Carnivores or Marsupials, I think you'll find differences in physiology among the families that are far more astounding than that between hominids and chimpanzees or gorillas. I haven't counted the chromosomes, but I'd be surprised if there weren't some discrepancies larger than ours between a fox and a tiger, or between a Tasmanian devil and a kangaroo. They make the various Primates look like litter-mates.

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  12. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

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    Humans can have the wrong number of chromosomes and still be human. Ever hear of Downes Syndrome?
     
  13. paulsamuel Registered Senior Member

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    biologist's perspective

    humans are no more different from "all other primates" than any other primate family is different from all other primates.

    why are primates are primates? http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/chordata/mammalia/primates.html

    is based on shared taxonomic characteristics and is independent of the number of chromosomes

    incidentally, a phylogenetic reconstruction of a taxonomic group requires shared derived characteristics

    the article posted by wellcookedfetus appears to be written by a non-specialist. although the article nicely shows that chromosomes are not lost, some of the confusion in the article:
    -the genechip data is based on the exact same concepts (DNA hybridization) as the melting temperature data.
    -it's difficult to compare them since it's actually 2 different things being measured where the genechip data measures expressed genes (mRNA) and the melting temp. stuff is based on whole genome, including non-coding portion of the genome
    -based on variation inherent in the data, the difference between 95% and 98% is probably not significant and actually represent the same amount of divergence, i.e. the two values agree, they don't disagree
    -data mining is not really an experiment. one merely goes to the databases, and picks out homologous genes from organisms to be compared. the problem is the assumption of homology
     
  14. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    gene chips must not be your specialty.

    Aside for DNA hybridizing and nano-levers gene chips test many known sequences rather then unknown sequences, also the RNA can be remove so the gene chip can be used on only DNA if desired, also it is preferred to used cDNA rather then mRNA.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2003
  15. paulsamuel Registered Senior Member

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    biologist's perspective

    actually, i've done a couple hundred gene chip experiments, you? i suspect you're an undergrad who knows too much to realize that you know too little.

    this statement: "also the RNA can be remove so the gene chip can be used on only DNA if desired" is nonsensical. if you wrote this in my class, i'd flunk you.

    actually the genechips use cRNA for hyb's
     
  16. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    the probes are cDNA buddy

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    you want to prove it?

    Someone that goes around touting that they’re a PHD in Biology (what field??? just General Biology?) is asking for a it, you don’t see me and spuriousmonky making assholes of are selfs, we don't want people to think we are know-it-alls or more often smartasses so displaying a title like that is just plain rude and darn right stupid.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2003
  17. paulsamuel Registered Senior Member

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    biologist's perspective

    sorry to embarass you, but i fucking hate know-it-alls

    the series of reactions goes like this;

    total RNA extraction (between 5 and 20 ug); it has gotta be clean, suggest QIAGEN RNAEasy Kit

    1st strand cDNA synthesis:

    use poly T oligo to prime the polymerization, do a 70C annealing step for 10 minutes, add the 1st strand buffer DTT, dNTP's, 5 min. at 45C, add reverse transcriptase, incubate 45C 1 hour.

    2nd strand synthesis

    add
    buffer, dNTP's, ligase, DNA Pol1, RNaseH, incubate 4 hrs. add T4 DNA polymerase. incubate 5 minutes. add EDTA

    To incorporate label, IVT reaction (in vitro transcription) this turns the cDNA into cRNA. we use an ENZO IVT kit which includes the enzyme, RNase inhibitor, ribonucleotides, buffer and DTT.

    this is used for the hybridization after we add spike controls.

    you DumbAss!
     
  18. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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  19. paulsamuel Registered Senior Member

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    biologist's perspective

    dude, you need to read what you link.

    these microarray experiments are different than the genechip experiments of which the article YOU posted spoke

    you think because you have the slightest knowledge of some topic in which you have NO educational degree that you're some kind of expert, but you are a fool and you're pathetic.

    my A.A.S. is in Ecology and Environmental Technology, my B.S. is in Marine Biology, my M.S. and Ph.D. are in Zoology. My dissertation was on conservation genetics (Monachus schauinslandi). I currently am a Research Associate at the University of Hawaii biotechnology facility.

    My CV is posted on COS

    I reiterate; DumbAss!
     
  20. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Well excuse me for pointing out that your a jerk and showoff, I believe I have validated that fact repeatedly, and getting so angry at your age with your kind of life time experience, obviously if you need to come here to get respect then something is not going right in your life.
     
  21. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    well...i make an asshole of myself all the time... In my last paper I postulated a theory, that I realize now might not be completely true.

    And as for sciforums, I probably say bullshit all the time, because my speciality is developmental biology, and as I have said earlier, I even managed to say bullshit in the one and only subject I am the most knowledgable in the entire world: my own data and research.

    And I don't do microarrays, so I am not going to get involved in this discussion.


    and now I will play the moderator and say we can get back to the topic now...
     
  22. SwedishFish Conspirator Registered Senior Member

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    i see someone needs to prove he has the bigger penis. anyway, that information is readily available in textbooks so you could very well be a high school kid having fun. fetus is quite knowledgeable so it doesn't go over well to throw around childish names, furthering my belief you're a kid.
     
  23. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    When a thread about Fluorescence DNA marker dyes comes up I'll probably fumble that with BS as well. What subject? Oh ya well now that I think about it the taxonomy is not very clear: some taxonomist have humans and the great apes separated (hominids and pongidae) while other lump us all as one (hominida)
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2003

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