Hi, I am a recently joined member on this forum and like the majority here, I am an Atheist. I would first like to recount my journey and then explain how I straightened out my philosophy. One can see the irony, but exactly 2 years ago I was a new ager, reading the secret, listening to lectures on Lynn Mctaggart's experiments and had given up my specs to heal my myopia through my will. When it didn't work out, I started reading the critics. I was introdued to Shermer through Ted on ytube and PnT's Bullshit soon followed. Randi, derren and other were next. I converted to being a scientific sceptic. That by itself may have done much, but I also happened to be a avid reader of science and I absolutely loved modern physics and biology. So the next step was Attenbrough's epic Life series [all 9 of em]. Combined with a lecture series on existentialism, I was converted to a naturalistic, eclectic, absurdist, scietific sceptic. I was now a agnostic, leading towards spinoza's God as a crutch to hold up my theism. It was only recently that I had the courage to read Dawkin's 'the God Delusion' and it completeled the journey for me. I am currently reading Harris, Sagan, Shermer, Randi and other prominet atheists. Now the second part, my philosophy. When I was using spinoza as a crutch, I firmly establised the idea that the religious gods were a interpretation, and a poor one at that, of spinoza's god. Learning about logic, fallicies and biases and a lecture series on rhetoric moulded my philosophy to one compatible with naturistic, rational atheism. My current view is as such: I refer to god in three senses: Ideological: This is the god of religion IN the minds of its followers. He is the ideological set of beilefs that drive and motivate deeply religious people. He exists in the sense that he can make a terrorist lay down his life without hesistation or convince a catholic that his protestant friend will burn in hell. Such gods exist only as long as the people who believe in them do. In this sense, Thor and Zeus are extinct Gods while Jesus and Allah are extant ones. The evangelical movement in America can be understood as a 'jesus conservation initiative', fighting the rational and scientific in a country where both are increasing at an alarming rate. Experiential: This is the god we experience, though is largely misplaced by people into the third category. This god of experience is the name we give to the wonder one experiences marvelling at the beauty of an orchid, in reflecting how evolution shaped it as such, how simple insects and plants sustain a complex relationship like pollination. This is the god we feel looking at sunset, looking at the gradient in the sky, realising how the increased length of the light's path redshifts the scattered light in the atmosphere. This is the joy we feel looking at a hummingbird in slow motion, seeing its wings swivel in a figure 8. This is accentuated, not diminished, when we do xrays on the birds, test it in wind tunnels and determine the structural stresses the little wings bear. This god, of course exists in the sense discribed above, but no more than that. Indeed, my own conversion to atheism seems almost paved by a higher power. I know, of course, that this is explained by confirmation and personal bais, though that doesnt take away its wonder for me. I feel happier that I understand why it looks apparently paved for me. Literal: This is a misplacement of a experiential god within a ideology resulting in belief that the ideological god is a real something, with misplaced examples of experiential god as proofs. This is the god of fundamentalist religions and he almost certainly doesn't exist. A final word on morality: If we need a higher law to keep us in line, we need to rethink a few things. If we can do without a higher law, God isn't needed. Indeed, God was necessary when the religions were first created millennia ago. Now science has filled the space, explaining things and helping us understand the world; and logic and philosophy are well equiped to handle the moral and ethical espects once the domian of religion. In today's world, and more so in tomorrow's, religion is no longer needed and is just a harmful burden, to be rid of and rid of quickly unless people can have a non-fundamental, secular, rational point of view accepting their "holy books" as myths and continuing a culture or tradition but no more. PS. About the poll: From 0 to 9, 0 being undoubting belief that god exists and 9 being undoubting belief that god does not exist, What would u rate urself?
Hi aaqucnaona One of the good things about science forums is the atheists have the majority. I guess you could say as a kid I was a closet atheist, I didn't really believe but I didn't want to be different from the other kids either. In the US back in the 50's & 60's atheist weren't very popular so they didn't advertize. I don't think I met my first atheist until I was in my 20's. At least one that was willing to admit to it and talk about it. With me I really made an effort to believe in God, but after awhile I realized it just wasn't going to happen and I just accepted that I was an atheist. Having the opportunity to talk to other atheist on Science forums has really helped me solidify my thoughts on the subject.
9. Alarming to them, or to you? I was reminded of "the laws of nature and nature's God" from the Declaration. A deist or theist bias exists, so lots of folks will tend to associate a god with a "religious experience". Otherwise, I would say that nature is the most profoundly influential agent for causing the experiences, and the most logical cause for societies to invent gods to explain the perceived spiritual experiences.
Why do I end up on a book forum when I click the poll? I just put 8. I allow 1 chance for an intelligent brain network in space that somehow, chaotically developed similar to humans. It wouldn't be a God from any religion on Earth however, it would be a new sort of brain made from matter that controls matter.
Only an 8, some room for doubt?Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! As to the book forum, yeah, what's with that?
I see a science forum is a church service for atheists . On the forum you can bash the believers and get support from other atheists , here you are the majority and you feel safe ...very interesting.
Your comments are not very accurate. But listening to what others had to say on the subject, helped me understand my own feelings. It's sometimes hard to grow up in a community ware admitting you don't believe in God makes you different from everybody else thus subject to ridicule and pressure, and after a life time you have an opportunity to finally talk to like minded people. It's nice not to feel alone in the world anymore.
Not all of you I have a close friend atheist , he is bashing believers all the time we argue some time he comes to church with me is there is a dinner ( Wise guy), But I see you guys are different breed . I believe you guy would be more reasonable by calling yourself agnostics , that is not as positive
[Q It was only recently that I had the courage to read Dawkin's 'the God Delusion' and it completeled the journey for me. I am currently reading Harris, Sagan, Shermer, Randi and other prominet atheists. [/QUOTE] Now you will be an apostol of Dawkin's You should also subscribe to the atheist organization , they have a new flyer , the same way they will ask yiu for a contribution, just like in church, ( just a different name )
@arauca Atheists are always against this find of lumping of people into herds - its like managing a congregation of cats. This is also why all atheists havent yet comeout. And I agree that rational discussions are the only way to critique religion, bashing it or ridiculing its followers means that u aren't ready yet to be an atheist. It takes more than just "I dont beilieve in god" to be an athiest. A love of science, logic, rhetoric, scepticism, even if u dont pursue them in study, are essential. Ur friend obviously hasnt completled the second step yet.
The position of an atheist isn't a belief, its an inference, and it should be falsifiable to prevent it from becoming a faithbased idea. Anyway, even a 7 is technically an atheist.
Alarming to them of course. I think its about damn time science and rationality have greater importance than mythological beiliefs.
Um, yeah...I may be a Pagan and a mental patient...but those New-Age fluffy-white-lighter types...Man, those people will believe anything...:bugeye:
Indeed. I find it hard to believe I actually beilieved the new age stuff. Well, all well that ends well.
Hmm.. the pollmaker allowed for multiple checkboxes to be checked. I accidentally voted for two options (0 and 9). I meant to vote 9. I'm more certain no god exists than I am certain that the sun will rise tomorrow morning. I have no reason to believe in god and I have no reason to believe the sun will not rise tomorrow morning. However, neither of them are 100% certainties.
I voted wrong, as I was presented with the question before the first post. I should have picked the lowest number instead of 9. When asked "What would you rate your belief in god" on a scale of 1 to 9. I would think the higher number would be affirmative.
It's actually 0-9 and I almost voted for 0, But I remembered reading in the poll instructions to read the OP first. It actually does pay to read the instructions.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
This brought to mind the various cults of the sun from antiquity, who were maybe afraid the sun might not rise if they did not follow whatever rituals they followed. If only they understood inertia, and a few more things, they could have come to the same conclusion as you.
I thought that's what you meant. Ditto to science and rationality over mythological beliefs, and all the denial which that imposes. It seems to me that belief in God survives today because religion has evolved into a mind-tampering device. One inculcated, it's hard for the believer to back out, and it's hard to recognize atheism. The religion sets up a network of binds to prevent their sheep from wandering off. To deny evolution, to demand intelligent design, and to cherry-pick from the laws, evidence and history that would oppose their myths, is the ultimate form of mind control. Oddly enough, a lot of these folks end up working in science and technology. Apparently they like the structure.
