Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

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Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    4,149
    It was stated as such by Picard who would know after all he still has access to all the things he knew as locutos. Also several dozen of the borg were well outside of the plasma cloud when they died from queen death feedback.

    Okay first of all you must remeber that Deanna is considered an extremely weak psychic. Second the Force is omnipresent where there is life. The borg are alive (barely) and if they are interconnected then they can be influenced as a single beeing as they do have no force of will.


    The man was being held by a pair of tractor beams spinning in a direction and manacled with cuff he could not see the controls of. Plus what was he going to do if he escaped? Better to wait for the cavalry he already called.

    Wrong again Darth Bane, Exar Kun and others have had very real effects on the physical plane.

    Hello Coruscant has 12 trillion sentients minimum Unimatrix 1 and Unimatrix zero were the only complexes of their size and each had a population of one trillion hooked to their hub at any time. Which might very well mean 2 trillion borg

    It may generate 30 million terrajoules but I will bet not even 200,000 gigajoules would hit the shields at any one time to even a vessel the size of the death star. Rememer that in virtually all natural phenomena energy is radiated in every direction no concentrated in one.
     
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  3. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    Listen dude Romulans and Cardassians do not use PHOTON torpedos. Just a fact. Romulans use Plasma and Cardassians use Ionic. And if these idiot were trying wipe out a planet they would have been using Tricolbalt torpedoes


    Look if we go by script the lowest yeild is 25 tons, which is indisputable andmatches the use of 99% of all torpedoes. If we go by tech readout maximum possible yeild from the M/AM warhead is 64 megatons (check it out for yourself 1.5 kg of antimatter and matching matter. )

    You can argue those facts all you like but it won't change them, and in fact offers a very realistic and intelligent variable weapon.
     
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  5. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    Okay here is where it falls apart the asteroid was not armored, in fact it was made up of largely ovaline a brittle rock. Also while Chakotay was surprised about the LARGE chunk left behing Kim responded that their should have been no debris left larger than a centimeter. One centimeter debris is NOT vaporized by any stretch of the word.

    Now you could argue that it was shield, but they why did sensors miss it.

    You could argue that the ovaline threw off the calculation, but if that was true their should have been SMALLLER pieces as ovaline is more fragile than the iron they were expecting

    Also why didn't sensors pick up that it was fake?
     
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  7. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    4,149
    Okay, thanks to a little more research and stepping out form the latin and greek roots a bit I believe i have found the origin and correct spelling of ISOton.


    Now there would be a Interplanetary version of the same thing in ST. Now some countries when they are communicating back and forth use ISO as a prefix to measurements in order to clearly identify if they are speaking local measure or standardized.

    Now if we couple this with the dilemma of the photon torpedo, perhaps they have an exposive 3 million times more powerful than TNT that they are basing explosive potential off of (it would nearly match a 1.5 kg AM warhead)


    This is just a theory, but perhaps one of the best ones yet.
     
  8. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Must have missed that part where he said it could not effect others, oh right it doesn't exist. Hell, Qui-Gon expected to be able to mind trick Watto, nad it was obvious he was no weak mind before he even tried it.


    Darkside helped, but Sith have learned to hide their presence, google Jacen Solo and read the wookiepedia

    Yeah let's ignore the fact that somethime odd orders like this have saved their lives. Yeah let's ignore the fact that the other vessel has returned hail and made no threatening move. Let's ignore the fact that it's not yet an enemy vessel.


    Wonderful thing about implanted suggestion Picard would give the code himself.


    Proof?

    I hate simple people look above for my now corrected scale. But also remeber that it took a whole Constitution class ship self destructing to create a 100 megaton weapon top kill the doomsday device. Recognize all the area that Photons were no more impressive than 2000 lb bombs.



    Not ignoring the creatures field weakened to the point of not being there when it was angry. One phont igniting a warp core fits right well.


    Proof it wasn't?

    Vaporize would never be used in describing what happens to an atmosphere that is superheated especially by someone who deals with plasma every damn day. And if he was in command it meant the one guy who would correct him is off ship. It also means he was left with comm, helm, and navigation none of which would know to correct him.


    No, not likely or it would have been that way in TOS. They got gimped.

    He was not talking to UFP officers. He thought he was talking to the people trying to break him.

    But have they done it since? No so they don't. Thank you one shots do not count

    Well Photons are RED or ORANGE. Plasma torpedoes come in a variety of colors as do Tri-Colbalt devices, Photns however are ALWAYS red or orange. So you just disproved them being Photons.

    Also note as they knew this would be a planetary assualt they would have had special munitions made.

    That is the average in SW.
     
  9. superstring01 Moderator

    Messages:
    12,110
    Anti-matter, even a small amount, would do the trick. If they REALLY were using Photon Torpedos (and they do use them), one or two would do the trick-- no need for dozens of shots like we were shown in the episode.

    (Quote from Memory Alpha on the Romulan D'deridex Class Warbird: Interestingly, the primary weapons array has fired both constant and "pulsed" disruptor beams (as well as the occasional torpedo). It is unknown if the disruptor types used were the type-3 disruptors mentioned in Star Trek Generations. On occasion, Starfleet officers have identified the ship's weapons as phasers. Photon torpedoes have been mentioned as being part of a Warbirds' armament, as have plasma torpedoes, (DS9: "Image in the Sand") a weapon originally used in TOS: "Balance of Terror").

    Warbirds use Photorps.

    ~String
     
  10. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    D'deridex have been said to have Photons torpedoes, but never seen. Remember the Romulans are huge are trickery and misdirection.

    Actually they would still need massive amount of Antimatter 1.5 kilo produces roughly 64 megatons.

    Of course if they were smart just containment fields of anitmatter could be fired railgun style with just enough power to get to the ground. Would be worthless against shields but kick ass against unshielded planets.
     
  11. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    Ah, then why didn't it work? You see, if he expected it to work, that means he was confident in his ability to affect non-weak minded people. Seeing as this apparently fails as we have no indication either way of Watto having an exceptionally strong mind, it would seem more likely that he underestimated Watto rather than Watto being some strong defense against the Jedi mind tricks.

    And by the way, when Ben said it had the ability to affect the weak minded, he was talking about weak minded. That would be like me saying that only males are born with dicks, but you claiming that women can be born with them too on the account that I never said it couldn't be possible.


    Ah...no?

    Really? Name three. Name three times when Picard gave some shit weird order out of the blue with someone they just met that might pose a tactical threat to them. Oh, and by the way, said ship is also armed to the teeth and briming with fighters. Yeah, nothing could possibly be wrong with this picture.


    Interesting, too bad you must now give evidence that Picard can do that. You see, this reminds me of the episode when Picard was kidnapped and impersonated by an imposter who had all of his memories. Picard acted a bit strange, but nothing that was too strange. Then he orders them to go to a nearby star and to get closer. This star was supposedly some type of strange star that was supposed to be dangerous to get close to. When the imposter tried to get the others to obey, he didn't once try to use the ship to override them and go into the star. Given that he had all of Picard's memories, he would have known to do that if it was possible. In all likelyhood, this was done so as to prevent dangers such as these.

    Also, even if he could override it with voice code, two senior officers (including the first officer) can overrule him. Also, wouldn't Vader have to know that Picard is there in order to use it? Picard is a void in the force, you can't target him with a Jedi Mind Trick. That, and just how far can the Jedi Mind trick work?

    So lets see here:

    1) Can only affect weak minded people with the force, seeing as Picard is not in any way weak, this will not affect him.

    2) Picard is not part of the force, thus he cannot be affected by it.

    3) The crew will not let Picard put them in a dangerouse position.

    4) You have yet to confirm the range of the Jedi Mind Trick.


    You mean ignoring the fact that Plasma Torps are clear and red? Or the fact that the explosions should have been implosions? Huh, kinda sounds like they aren't plasma torps.



    Interesting. How about the fact that a photon torp might have been destroyed before it could deliver its payload? Keep in mind that the Constitution was much larger. And why couldn't it produce something bigger than that? Well, likely because it had just gotten its ass kicked around.


    Not really, the shield was weak yes, but its still a shield, and the crew was just barely able to do that so they could beam Troi out. The shield would have likely still been there upon impact, thus it would have already given its payload before it hit the shuttle. And again, when a ship is destroyed via a photon, we do not see a larger explosion, but in fact a very tame explosion compared to the warp core breach that we see. So it would seem that there was some sort of saftey feature.


    The fact that they never mention it being one. If you want to suggest otherwise, please put out proof.

    Interesting. You see, the cast has often used the vaporizing to describe the effects of phasers and disruptors. This does not match what we see. And unless everyone on the bridge failed basic science along with Mr. Scott, I would think that this would be fairly odd for them to hear. Double so since Sulu often fires weapons as well, or works with them, depending upon the episode.

    Untrue. We have clear evidence that TOS phasers would take out an entire deck. We also know that the modern phasers are more powerful than the older ones. This is canon fact. Given how advanced phasers are, its not unlikely that the UFP decided to add in saftey features, or anyone for that matter. In fact, we see that the UFP has back ups for its own back up systems.

    Oh, that's right. However, it hardly seems he was bluffing...since he fired the phaser afterwards.

    Oh, and here is something else for phaser firepower:

    Phasers go up to setting 16.

    The Die is Cast.

    No they don't. Photons are red and orange because that's what the Federation uses. Klingons also use photon torps and their torps are green too. So, actually, it being green has nothing to do with it. And since when did Tri-Cobalts come in a varity of colors? So no, rather you just proved yourself to be an idiot, ignoring the fact that we never seen these weapons dealing implosions, which they would if they where plasma torps. Instead, we saw explosions.

    Prove it.

    Wrong, Lucas is painting a scene for the reader, he made no mention to any character or person having these thoughts, so you can't place it to EU towns. Lucas is addressing the reader, and thus that means he is trying to connect with them in a way that they can relate. Otherwise, he could have just as easily placed a mathmatical yield there. But he didn't because he is trying to relate to the reader. The reader knows what a small town is.
     
  12. Fettman #1 Bounty Hunter Registered Senior Member

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    oke: About not being affected by the force well Vong could be affected by it and they came from a diffrent galaxy Force lightning fried them ^_^ oh and to say somthing isnt part of the force because it isnt from the SW galaxy seems like a bold statment in the fact that vong were still in the force just as their slave race, Jacen Solo found this out in Traitor and the fact that we still dont know everything about human geans means that we could still have midiclorions.
     
  13. Fettman #1 Bounty Hunter Registered Senior Member

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    366
    And I think what Obi ment when he said weakminded he ment less than a jedi, just a thought
     
  14. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    Wrong again. Plasma torps are clear blobs of red, as seen here:

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    Furthermore, none of these ships have ever been observed to fire a weapon that covers the target and forces an implosion. Never once on screen since then. With no evidence pointing directly to these weapons as being plasma based, you have nothing to stand on.

    And by the way, here is a link to Star Trek.com of a Cardassian ship armed with photons, I checked for the other Cardassian ships, but no mention was made for Ionic torps.


    Interesting, going by the script, hand held weapons that fit in the palm of my hand can destroy half a building and vaporise man sized targets without it roasting the person next to them...cool. Oh, and by the way, in the episode where Odo got sick in DS9, the Defiant was taken to the new Founder Homeworld, surronded by a large fleet of Jem'Hadar ships. To top it all off, we get a great quote where the Cardassian spy is trying to tap into the Defiant's weapon system. When Worf catches him and demands why he would try to do it given that the others are still on the planet. The Cardassian explains that the Defiant has enough firepower to turn the Founder homeworld into a burning cinder in space, and that after what the Jem'Hadar see what happened, they will kill them.

    Funny, I thought you just said that they had very little firepower just now...

    Done putting forth bullshit?
     
  15. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    ERxcept than that would have to make Jabba the Hutt a Jedi.
     
  16. Fettman #1 Bounty Hunter Registered Senior Member

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    Well plasma is diffrent colors depending on the heat, red would be one of the lowest and weakest of plasma
     
  17. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    Again, no. Its just some shit that Lucas made up. If you claim that we have something that was made up, then you better prove it. I can prove it on the account that there is no such thing mentioned and Star Trek comes from another reality, and thus are not part of the force. The Vong, though they come from another galaxy, are part of the same universe.
     
  18. Fettman #1 Bounty Hunter Registered Senior Member

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    366
    No because he couldnt use the force just because he has a strong will dosnt make him a jedi
     
  19. Fettman #1 Bounty Hunter Registered Senior Member

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    Are you a Rabid?
     
  20. Fettman #1 Bounty Hunter Registered Senior Member

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    Nvm I think you are.
     
  21. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

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    1,099
    It apparently was armored since it was supposed to be vaporized as Chakotay himself said ( A starfleet officer, even before he became a terrorist) it should be, and was surprised that it wasn't. Apparently, he too noticed that something was wrong with that picture.

    Armor doesn't have to be apparent to be there. In fact, given that they where built to look like normal astroids, this would seem kind of like a duh.

    Or that the weapons where made to look like astroids.
    Again, this was an attack by another group that was making them look like astroids, it doesn't help if you don't try to fool these people in the sensor department if they are just going to scan it.
     
  22. Fettman #1 Bounty Hunter Registered Senior Member

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    And nano what ever they are called (borg things that assmilate) they are just made up so they may not have any affect on SW or (necrons)
     
  23. Fettman #1 Bounty Hunter Registered Senior Member

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    And if you ask for proof I cant give it.
     
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