Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

?

Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,493
    I got qoutes to counter that.

    "Part of the job of the director is to sort of keep everything in line, and I can do that in the movies—but I can't do it on the whole Star Wars universe."

    "After Star Wars was released, it became apparent that my story—however many films it took to tell—was only one of thousands that could be told about the characters who inhabit its galaxy. But these were not stories I was destined to tell. Instead they would spring from the imagination of other writers, inspired by the glimpse of a galaxy that Star Wars provided. Today it is an amazing, if unexpected, legacy of Star Wars that so many gifted writers are contributing new stories to the Saga."
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    So if the visuals to the proof are not provided, they are accepted universally?

    Okay, Fine.

    Star Trek: Q&A - Q has been preparing Humanity, namely Picard, to take his place in, ultimately, destroying, then saving, the ENTIRE universe. Because Picard was the ONLY one that could, because he, alone, is more powerful than the ENTIRE Q COntinuum.

    It's written, directly in the book.

    No graphics, so no need to prove.


    See where I'm going with this Scott...?
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    Skywalker, no offense, but you really do not get it.

    Lucas has already made it clear HE dictates "highest cannon", eg, the movies. Those movies overrule EVERYTHING else.

    Paramount, however, has final rule on Star Trek, because Roddenburry gave it to them. He was Star Treks creator, but he GAVE THE RIGHTS to Paramount. Thus, they are like Lucas in our debate... as they created the ending of TNG, and all of VOY, DS9, and ENT, they are highest cannon as well.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Flectarn Unregistered User Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    347

    not exaclty
    Thermonuclear bombs are fusion assisted fission devices.
     
  8. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,493
    You misunderstood. I ment YVH Droids deveploed by Lando Carrisssian.
     
  9. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,493
    No, I said the missiles are used as harrasment fire.
     
  10. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,493
    Levels of Star Wars Canon.
    G-Canon
    T-Canon
    C-canon

    They are all canon.
     
  11. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    Yes.

    But.

    The MOVIES override anything below them... G-Cannon is, basicly, god.

    And, sadly, G-cannon overrides a LOT of the stuff you read in the books.

    Good example - if turbolasers were nearly as strong as you try to say, you'd need, simply put, a SINGLE ISD to completely, and utterly, anihilate a SOLAR SYSTEM.

    Sadly, as Han said, it would take "more ships than the Imperial Starfleet has" to destroy a planet using Star Wars weapons... hence why the DS was such a threat.

    Conversely, a SINGLE Star Trek ship can destroy a planet by detonating it's core... it would take a bit of time, yes, but it could do it ALONE.
     
  12. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,493
    Do it doesn't
    1. There are plantery defence forces.
    2. No where did it say that it can.
    He never said that. He said that it need a fleet of ISD and more firepower he has every seen. We gone over this, Han Solo don't know the full power of a ISD, he is low ranked when he is in the Imperial Navy.
    Again, planetary shields and defence forces.
     
  13. Saquist Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,256
    Well of course those are blasters. Blasters are typically used on planets, in atomosphere.

    Yet not all absolute. Only one hold that title.

    That's not a counter, SJ.
    That's called delegation. As we discussed before Lucas pulls the strings but he allows others to make some of th calls too.
     
  14. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,493
    Laser Cannons shoot blaster bolts.

    Yes!!



    That's not a counter, SJ.
    That's called delegation. As we discussed before Lucas pulls the strings but he allows others to make some of th calls too.[/QUOTE]
    I know, but somebody called Kittamaru don't see that.
     
  15. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,493
    I think It might be in I, Jedi.
     
  16. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGMvadAFqLQ&feature=related

    ~8:20 2 fighters destroy a large dome on the executer's bridge with "lasers", iright afterward a crew member announces the shield is down... then it gets hit by the A-wing, and crashes. The question of course is... how were they able to shoot the dome if the shields were up before that... and why did they go down afterwards.[/quote]

    Notice how you forget that the Executioner had been in close contact fighting with two other Spacestation ships as well as a few other capital ships. It had been taking pounding from an actual fleet of ships as well as fighter for several minutes. The shields in some area were probably become compromised. One such area was probably the Sensopr dome on the bridge. When it was taken out by a rather lucky hit by a fighter pilot, the resulting explosion and feedback cuased the shields on the bridge to collapse. The ship did manage to destroy one of two oncoming starfighters, at a 90 degree angle to the cannon no less, but the A-wing managed to get through at maximum acceleration and destroy primary bridge by ramming throgh the Transparisteel bridge. The resulting damage took the ship on a collison course with the Death Star before Auxilliary control could transfer control. This wasn't the Imperial being dumb, but rather just being on the wrong end of one the great Military Minds of Star Wars.

    Actually even a squadron of fighters is little threat to an ISD, however when backed by a capital ship they do get more dangerous.


    Actually Concussion missiles can be seen in Attack of the Clones when Jango is chasing Obi-wan's fighter through the rings of Geonosis.

    As for the genrator explosion, it might have seemed unimpressive, but i would bet a 120mm HEAT round would look unimpressive, but it cuts through armor like butter. Appearances can be deceiving.
     
  17. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    That might work if the books were viable canon in ST, but it isn't unlike in SW. Sorry sucka but you lose again and again.

    What i am stating here is that where dialog and visuals clash, visuals win. This also means in the books where there is descriptive text and dialog. If at some point Lt. Harstool of the Imperial navy smugly says that he can beat a wookie in hand to hand combat, but when he fights Chewie and loses would you believe what he said? If Han mistakenly states that all sith carry light sabers do we discount the description of Lumiya fighting with a Langikok (light whip)?

    Many of the thing you think would be invalidated would actually be upheld becuase the descriptions of what the devices do are painted vividly in words. That and at least a novel can let you know when someone is just joking.
     
  18. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Actually Roddenberry only doesn;t have say over his work currently becuase he is deceased. Paramount went against it's own interest and gave into Roddenberry declaring the whole Animated series non-canon. They did so becuase of the respect they had for the creator. So saying he didn;t have 100% control is bullshit, completely and utterly.

    As for Lucasfilm, they have done stuff without Lucas's permission, mainly becuasde while he owns the company he does not run it on a day to day basis. He concerned himself with the story of Anakin and nothing more. He did his movies his way and didn't care if it ran roughshod over what other people wrote, but also has said and implied numerous times that his movies are just one story in a whole universe. So yes there is a supreme canon, but it is over a very small part of the big picture. What other canon there is is just as real and sacred as long as it does not directly contradict the movies.

    How hard is that to understand?

    To put it in better terms A is the movies B is Expanded Universe.
    Where A and B intersect (disagree), A is superior to B.
    Where A and B overlap (agree), A is equal to B
    Where A and B do not intersect and do not over lap (something in one that is not in the other), A is equal to B.
     
  19. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    Ah, but this book was given the go ahead by Paramount, thus making it canon.

    At least by your standards

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    And visuals do not get the imediate win - else wars would REALLY be in the hole, considering for the first movie, they had an absolutely PATHETIC budget.

    Star Trek is not about visuals in any sense of the thought. Rather, true Trek has a deep moral foundation behind it, one that has carried through from TOS all the way to DS9... sadly, Enterprise seems to have lost it.
     
  20. Sardonic Crisis The God Emperor Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    220
    No, I am not confusing anything. Warpcores have a knack for dysfunctioning in other spacial distortions probably because they're a spacial distortion on their own. I know what I'm talking about, I was a ST fan before I read the Dune series.

    Yes, a black hole collapse outside of the ship... what about inside?
     
  21. Sardonic Crisis The God Emperor Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    220
    Yes, Norma Cenva may be new to the superowerful beings list (only several tens of thousands of years) but she has the same capabilities as Q. (Exists outside space/time, can erase a multi-galactic computer intelligence from existence, etc.)

    I need to read up on the space battles to give you guys a fair estimate of their ships capabilities.

    Thank you Antaran. Although, wasn't the chroniton thing a temporal shield or something. This might be an interesting route to discuss.
     
  22. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Actually, I go by the respective compnaies canon policy Paramount does not count ANY books as canon for Star Trek. The only book that can even be used in a canon discussion of Star Trek is the Encyclopedia Paramount had published and all information in there comes directly from shows and movies. Lucasfilm however has the SW novels as canon except where the they directly counterdict the movies.

    Now you are just evading the point. What is meant by the visuals win is that when dialog and what we see on the show disagree what we see wins. If some character said that the Enterprise could destroy a planet in one second, and then it is not done, the characters statements are false and not admissiable as evidence. Harry Kim joking about destroying a planets with a 83 isoton bomb must be incorrect becuase we have seen 20 isoton torpedes used in the dozens against planets. .

    But you don't get the point. In this war the morals will get you nowhere without the firepower and numbers to back them up. this is a mismatch of epic scale. It's like matching John McCLane (as the Federation) against Megatron (as the Empire). There is no doubt who is the good guy, but being the good guy does not mean you can take on enemies outside your league.
     
  23. Sardonic Crisis The God Emperor Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    220
    This wouldn't be of much use against no-ships, seeing as how no-ships reflect the surroundings--including gravity--. ST is capable of detecting fluctuations outside of normal space and can detect no-ships but acknowledging such fluctuations doesn't mean they know that it is a ship. The problem that I propose would fool interdictors as well.

    If that is true, then SW enters dangerous ground with the Dune universe.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page