Star Wars vs Star Trek

Really? I suppose you have a quote? Or do I have to search for it?

Hello, 20 ships. 30% crust destroyed. Opening volly.

It would take the UFP alot less energy to destroy a planet.

Oh?

Luke was apealing to Han's greed, because Han didn't want to go no matter what. However, the idea of him getting rich off a princess would be a sweet deal.

...Okay.

Han's quote comes from Episode 4 of Star Wars. The movie and the books based on the movies are G-level canon. Thus, Han's quote is G-level canon. G-level canon is above c-level canon. I thought this was very simple.

Of course not.

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Which is why the princess said that the tighter the Empire grips, the more planets with slip through their fingers...

Thus, the Clone Wars are basic knowledge.

And that's any better? And yes, they do work for the Republic, or did you forget about Episode One? They may not be part of it, but they do work for it on its behalf. And no, you don't nead that to destroy a planet. Because you can actually break a planet apart piece by piece given enough firepower.

Except the shockwave does not happen before the explosion. And furthermore, the Enterprise D doesn't have wires like world gadgets today. And just to put a stake in this argument, then you wouldn't mind explaining the two other shockwaves in Generations that looked and acted just like said shockwave from the Enterprise D. Furthermore, this ignores the fact that there has to be a shockwave after the ship explodes. What happens to that?

Yes, me and my three links to science sites which just explained shockwaves in space. Yes, I am a total failure aren't I? Dude, get over it, I just proved it by the very links I posted, I even quoted them so you wouldn't even have to worry about clicking. In fact, the links where there to prove I wasn't making shit up. I have quoted three sources and given a link to them. Now if you wish to argue it, explain why or post your own links and quotes. Attacking me personally is not going to help your situation.

 

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...By doing what? By acting and debating like I know stuff and actually beating the snot out of TW while doing it? What exactly is it that annoys you? Or is this about the Neutronium thing? Hey, its not my fault authors are idiots who apparently believe strange stuff about Neutronium.

 

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are you calling star wars writers idiots

 

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I'm calling authors idiots, though I did make a bit of a sweep over the group and not the individuals, though I suppose you can hardly hold it against me seeing as I'm studying to become a author...

 

As for kicking my ass, well maybe in your twisted reality were explosions in space are somehow identical to in an atmosphere.

Not anything stranger that what Star trek writers have done with it. Neutronium Carbon alloy?

 

Hmmm, what episode was that in?

And no, explosions in space are not the same as in atmosphere.

 

Dude if you can't remeber the episode why did you bring it up. I'll give you a hint it was the planet with the ritual suicide at sixty.

Well if the dialog was true yes, however visuals completely fly in the face of the dialog. the opening volley did do damage, however it was more like 3% unless their crust was a tenth as thick as Earths.

But the fact that han could not figure this out himslef says a lot.

So? Here's a little tidbit for you, human beings can be wrong. They can lie and exaggerate. Thus dialog is fraught with problems

Even if he was not doing any of that what he said does not counter 12.5 gigatons.

And she was right, the destruction of Alderaan caused several world to secede. If they hadn't tried switching the tools of oppression they would not have lost them

So?

No, they do not work for the Republic, they work within it. They are a seperate entity. Don't you pay attention.

You mean the Supernovas? The expansion of a star? Also they might not have wires but a burst of plasma could cuases the engines to pulse. Which by the way would rip the ship apart as well.


And about your three links, fine a shockwave can happen is space, but simple elementary physics tells us it is not going to be very big or do very much damage. Why? Becuase a simple explosion needs a medium to carry the destructive blast. The less medium the less damage.

Your three links probably explain this in greater depth, but of course you did not read them.

 

TOS: 'Doomsday Device'

 

TNG Relics sensors indicated a Neutronium carbon alloy sehll in the hull of the dyson sphere.

So obviously in both genres neutronium is just a super heavy metal and not what we consider neutronium

 

I know which episode it was.

Ah, so apparently no one on the bridge knows hwo their own weapons work?

Or that he's ignorant of polotical figures, which isn't surprising given that this is a galatic empire and he's likely to have paid attention at all, let alone memorize all the figures.

Ah yes, because we all know that Han was trying to fool everyone right? And that apparently neither Luke or Ben notice that he would be basicly speaking out his ass. Not to mention that again, this goes against how Han has been right in regard to the Empire on other matters.

Oh?

But her quote suggests that they where tightining their grip already and worlds where rebelling.

They work on its behalf, of did you miss the part where they saved Palpatine, or went on a diplomatic mission in Episode One?

It was stated in the movie to be a shockwave.

So, by that logic the explosive energy of the Enterprise D would have to have been exceptionally powerful...

Oh? Do point them out.

 

You mean the sphere around a unstable sun and had tractor beams that brought the Enterprise D's shields down to 23%?

 

Except they treated it as Neutronium and given how the thing ate planets and we knew very little about the inside of how it worked, it leaves enough holes to assume some form of advanced alien tech.

 

Then you realize how much modification was needed.

Or was just exaggerating or msreadin sensoprs. Sorry but visuals win out. Dialog always takes second place to visuals.

Still does not bode well. If he was a brilliant as you imply....

I am just saying that he could have been exaggerating. Or are you completely ignoring where I basically point out that he is still right but it does not disprove 12.5 gigatons.

A few had, Moff is a politacal term not military. Grand Moff Tarkin had already lost a few systems becuase he didn't do things the emperors way. But he was too useful to dispose of.

They worked to maintain the peace, something the republic had the best chance of doing.

So a Warp pulse would create a shock wave as it elongated space violently?

Or more like the subspace shockwave seen in ST:6 or the Wrp pulse as explained above which would explain how a warpcore breach could cause damage to space.

 

Yes the Dyson Sphere. There was a layer in the outer hull that prevented communication, transporters, and phasers from doing squat.

Now if neutronium from St can be alloyed with Carbon, then it is identical to SW neutronium. This does not bode well for ST.

 

Now what would be your source on this? Since it was copied by SW it can't be taken seiriously.

 

Why don't you tell me? Surely you have a quote or something. Odd though how a scientist from one planet had such greater knowledge of photon shielding and yet needed the Enterprise...

No, I disagree. Or do we have to go back to the magic Defiant example? Its very clear as to what she said, and that seeing as she isn't an idiot or that anyone else didn't say anything, she was right. Sorry, but dialog wins out because the visuals are done by others, and exactly replicating that massive damage on that scale was likely fairly hard to do at said time.

And who died and made you boss of what is right or not right to dictate as to visuals over dialog? Last I recall, visuals tend to complicate most matters.

He was brilliant in his field: naval training and smuggling, he wasn't political, his very attitude would suggest that.

Despite the fact that he said it would take a thousand starships to do what less than a hundred ST ships could do?

And thus would he have not already have displayed ISD firepower? And what of the clone wars? That's common knowledge, surely the impressive firepower of the Republic against the CIS would have been taught? And surely Ben would have heard some kind of reports to know how the war went?

Yeah, we saw how that worked out. And again, they ran errands for the Republic, and Palpatine even had enough influence and power to force the councile to accept Anakin as a Jedi Master.

No. It was a normal shockwave from the exploding ship. Get with it.

Fine, explain both in accurate details so that we may compare them.

 

Again, alien race, and it was built around a sun. Also, how does this matter for ST? Only three groups have used this material. The Dominion, which was for a door...oooh, scary, the Doomsday device, which was thought to only have one and was from far away and was alien tech, and teh Dyson Sphere, which isn't really a weapon and is unstable.

Really, who is it going to hurt? Oh, and by the way, it does hurt SW because their ships don't have it in their hulls, as some claim. Thus severaly reducing hull strength of Imperial ships.

 

:bugeye:
Let me get this straight. 303 pages.

303 pages!!!

303 pages of name calling, insulting, vicious, nasty FIGHTING .....

over ....

The war in Iraq? Noooooo.

Global warming? Noooooo.

Illegal Immigration? Noooooo.

Replacing Windows with Linux? Well, it's important to me but .... Noooooo

No, none of these things. What you guys are being so nasty about ... calling each other names ... CURSING over is .....

Could a Federation Starship/The UFP defeat an Imperial StarDestroyer/The Galactic Empire in a battle/war?

THIS is what you guys are so worked up about. All the other things being discussed on this website ... religion, politics, philosophy ... and YOU GUYS are willing to rip each others' heads of and .... um .... SPIT ... down each others necks over whether ST could beat SW!!!!!!

Now that's FUNNY!!!!:roflmao:

Look, you SW guys are never going to convince the ST people no matter how hard you try.

ST supporters? Same thing. The SW guys are NOT going to wake up in the morning and say, "Oh, now I see!!! Yes, the ST posters have convinced me. I agree now." NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!!!

I don't think that this is really a solvable argument. These are fictional universes, and you guys are trying to look at it like it's a real fight. It's not like asking what would happen if an F-22 and a Mig 31 got in a fight. Those are real machines in a real world. You start talking about "speculative fiction", and everything becomes subjective.

And the issues that cause contention aren't really solvable, are they?

1. Can a pure laser, even it is 12 gigatons (gigatons of WHAT, exactly? TNT? Antimatter? WHAT?), penetrate UFP shields? Well, no weapon on a UFP, Klingon, Romulan, etc... ship carries anywhere near that kind of raw power, but none of them are just plain "lasers" either. A phaser is a beam of directed energy carrying an anti-matter particle stream through SUBSPACE!!! What the heck kind of shield does it take to stop THAT!!!! How would such a shield react to simple massive force????
   
   WHO KNOWS?!?!?! The episode frequently referred to wherein the crew laughs at an opponent's "lasers" never says how powerful said lasers were, but I doubt they were that 12 gigatons of anything. How would UFP shields react to 12 gigaton blast of whatever? WHO KNOWS?!?!
   
   First, there's no such thing as a 12 gigaton laser, and second there are no UFP shields at which to fire them.
   
2. UFP ships can fight at FTL speeds. Well, can Star Destroyers do that? I don't think they can, but can anyone prove that?
   
3. Star Destroyers can cross their galaxy in short periods of time. UFP starships can't. Thus, Star Destroyers must be faster than Starships.
   
   Really? Just how big is the SW galaxy? The ST galaxy is the Milky Way ... a fairly good size galaxy. The universe is full of "dwarf" galaxies and other galaxies smaller than the Milky Way. The Enterprise-D could cross some dwarf galaxies in the same time it takes a Star Destroyer to cross it's galaxy.
   
   Is the SW galaxy a dwarf or small galaxy? WHO KNOWS? If so, then an SD isn’t really any faster than a StarShip, but who can say one way or the other?
   
4. Fighters seemed able to fly through the shields of the first Death Star, but not the second. They seemed to fly close enough to SDs to be inside their shields at Endor, but how can you be sure how close they were? If a UFP ship got in that close, it could possibly beam an anti-matter into the engine room and detonate it, but are we sure it CAN get in that close? Who knows???
   
5. Turbolasers can't target ships that can fight at FTL.
   • You don’t know that. How do SW sensors work, and how fast are their computers. Does anybody know? And how fast would a computer have to be?
   • How do you know that UFP ships WOULD be able to fly at FTL in the SW universe. Maybe the reason that UFP uses warp drive and the Empire uses Hyperspace is because the laws of phyics in each universe prevent the other universe's FTL method. It could well be that the one to go to the other one's universe would be unable to go FTL!!!
6. The Force. If they fight in the SW universe, fine. In the ST universe .... The WHAT??? Force? There's no such thing as a "Force".
   
7. Q. Why would the Q care? Could Q defeat Jedi? Maybe the Q can't even EXIST in the SW universe?

You can go on and on, but none of the arguments anyone has given are unassailable. None of them are iron clad. None of them are indisputable. You are never going to get a final conclusion on this question.

Well, not without my help.

You see, there's one point I haven't seen mentioned, though I'm not masochistic enough to read all 302 pages. It is the one point that will put an end to this whole argument, that will prove conclusively which side would win.

Here you go ....


Remember, SW and ST are both FICTIONAL universes. And in both of these fictional universes, there's ONE LAW OF PHYSICS that holds true in both universes .....

The Good Guys always win!!!!!

Janeway managed to defeat ALL the Borg!!!

Luke Skywalker in a ship smaller than an F-15 managed to blow up THE DEATH STAR!!!!!

Do you get the idea? In both universes, in the end, no matter the odds ...

The Good Guys always win!!!!!

UFP=Good Guys.
Empire=Bad Guys.

Therefore, the Federation Starship ... even if it's the NCC-1701 ... will find SOME WAY to defeat the Star Destroyer.

The UFP will find someway to wipe out, or at least stop, the Imperial invasion force.

And why?

Right! The Good Guys always win!!!

So, here's a list in case you get confused.

1. The UFP would defeat the Empire ... because the good guys always win.
   
2. The Rebel Alliance would defeat the Romulans, the Cardassians, the Ferengi, the Dominion, and the Borg ... AT THE SAME TIME... because the good guys always win.
   
3. SG-1 would defeat the Empire... because the good guys always win.
   
4. The Rebel Alliance would defeat the Go'aould and the Ori together... because the good guys always win.
   
5. Commander Adama in the BattleStar Galactica would defeat the Romulan Empire... because the good guys always win.
   
6. Kirk in the NCC-1701 would wipe out the Cylons... because the good guys always win.
   
7. John Wayne would defeat the Galactic Empire... because the good guys always win.

Well, you guys get the idea. The good guys always win, so there's really no point debating this anymore.

Whew! Glad that’s over!

 

Arrrghh! I accidentally double posted. How do you delete a post?

 

Scott, what the fuck are you talking about? The MOST we have seen from a total warp core breach + critical mass is a rift in the space-time continuum that results in trapping the ship(s) involved in a temporal loop. We know, for a FACT, that a warp core detonation SEALS subspace rifts... why the fuck would they cause them then?